Thread: Almost tried damascus with the wrong steel

First off, I don't even know if I can generate enough heat to forge weld. Looks like you need yellow, and I was just getting to red/orange in my mini forge.

Anyway, I bought some thin strips of O1 and cold rolled sheet, but when I stopped to think about the hardening process, I realized the cold rolled is useless. Might be fun to learn, but won't even make a blade.

So, I'm thinking that 1095 and O1 might work together, and heat treat as with straight O1. Does that sound reasonable? I'm also going to try to scrounge some railroad spikes for practice (and non-razor creations).

I recommend that you are certain of at least 2350 F before attempting this. It's possible to forge weld below that recommended minimum, but it would require big tools to make up for the lost degrees.

The carbon content of O1 averaged against cold rolled mild steel would give you about a 1050-1060 carbon content if you wanted it but it requires some calculation.

1095 against O1 improves the carbon averaging considerably but you may lose contrast between layers if you use that mix. 15N20 is commonly available and gives good contrast without worrying about carbon content. See if you can find some.

RR track spikes are (have always been 1030 steel after 1898) good for nothing but forging practice or whatever mild steel can do.

You're awesome, Mike Blue.

Mean time, I'll cut out a set of trial scales in solid copper. Might hammer them around a bit so they look a bit more organic.

Cheers,
A

Hmmm, it looks like 15N20 might be a bit hard to find. I'll make some phone calls and see if my local supplier has stuff that isn't listed online.

Do you think you can heat a small bock of layered steel (say 2" by 1" by 1") with direct MAPP flame to get to high enough temp? If I can't do it with my torch and forge, I've got bigger issues trying to find coal and a location to burn it (small inner-city garage). If it doesn't look possible for now, at least I should be able to roughly forge some O1 into shape, grind a bit, harden and temper, and finish grind with my minimal collection of tools.

Originally Posted by Atchbo

Do you think you can heat a small bock of layered steel (say 2" by 1" by 1") with direct MAPP flame to get to high enough temp?

It will take time for the heat to transfer properly, and you risk burning up one side (assuming you can get hot enough) while the other side is still only red.

I was under the impression that some railroad spikes were marked HC (for high carbon) as opposed to the milder steel spikes?

Send me a PM with your location, i'll help you find some other sources and try to save shipping costs.

There is economy in larger forges and billets when it comes to welding. It's been a long time since I worked anything that little. I have to pull some notes.

Exactly. They are good for forging all sorts of stuff. I don't fault anyone using them. I have. But i don't make silly claims to get Rc 62 on them as knife shaped objects. Facts are difficult to spin into myths.

It doesn't make sense for spikes to be .9% carbon tool steel to begin with.
Unhardened, it doesn't make sense because you might as well use 1030.
Hardened, it doesn't make sense because you want those spikes to not be brittle at freezing temperatures.

Originally Posted by Bruno

It doesn't make sense for spikes to be .9% carbon tool steel to begin with.
Unhardened, it doesn't make sense because you might as well use 1030.
Hardened, it doesn't make sense because you want those spikes to not be brittle at freezing temperatures.

Exactly. Steel is more prone to fracture when it's hardenable and much more prone to fracture the colder the temperature goes and the steel has been hardened. A lot of invaders found out the hard way that Russian winters were tough on bladed or steel based weapons.

The rail companies want a malleable steel that will bend before breaking. One of the AREA requirements is that the track spike will bend 180 degrees without cracking on the outside radius of the bend. It makes no sense to harden a track spike when the premise is to avoid de-railing a train.