Thread: Almost tried damascus with the wrong steel

First off, I don't even know if I can generate enough heat to forge weld. Looks like you need yellow, and I was just getting to red/orange in my mini forge.

Anyway, I bought some thin strips of O1 and cold rolled sheet, but when I stopped to think about the hardening process, I realized the cold rolled is useless. Might be fun to learn, but won't even make a blade.

So, I'm thinking that 1095 and O1 might work together, and heat treat as with straight O1. Does that sound reasonable? I'm also going to try to scrounge some railroad spikes for practice (and non-razor creations).

I recommend that you are certain of at least 2350 F before attempting this. It's possible to forge weld below that recommended minimum, but it would require big tools to make up for the lost degrees.

The carbon content of O1 averaged against cold rolled mild steel would give you about a 1050-1060 carbon content if you wanted it but it requires some calculation.

1095 against O1 improves the carbon averaging considerably but you may lose contrast between layers if you use that mix. 15N20 is commonly available and gives good contrast without worrying about carbon content. See if you can find some.

RR track spikes are (have always been 1030 steel after 1898) good for nothing but forging practice or whatever mild steel can do.

You're awesome, Mike Blue.

Mean time, I'll cut out a set of trial scales in solid copper. Might hammer them around a bit so they look a bit more organic.

Cheers,
A

Hmmm, it looks like 15N20 might be a bit hard to find. I'll make some phone calls and see if my local supplier has stuff that isn't listed online.

Do you think you can heat a small bock of layered steel (say 2" by 1" by 1") with direct MAPP flame to get to high enough temp? If I can't do it with my torch and forge, I've got bigger issues trying to find coal and a location to burn it (small inner-city garage). If it doesn't look possible for now, at least I should be able to roughly forge some O1 into shape, grind a bit, harden and temper, and finish grind with my minimal collection of tools.

Send me a PM with your location, i'll help you find some other sources and try to save shipping costs.

There is economy in larger forges and billets when it comes to welding. It's been a long time since I worked anything that little. I have to pull some notes.

Originally Posted by Atchbo

Do you think you can heat a small bock of layered steel (say 2" by 1" by 1") with direct MAPP flame to get to high enough temp?

It will take time for the heat to transfer properly, and you risk burning up one side (assuming you can get hot enough) while the other side is still only red.

I was under the impression that some railroad spikes were marked HC (for high carbon) as opposed to the milder steel spikes?

Originally Posted by Magpie

I was under the impression that some railroad spikes were marked HC (for high carbon) as opposed to the milder steel spikes?

This hoary myth was put to rest by yours truly back in the late 1980's. However like Zombies, it doesn't seem to want to die.

There are specifications from the American Railroad Engineering Association that require track spikes marked HC to not be greater than 1030 steel. Low carbon steel spikes are 1010 steel. The nomenclature "high carbon low carbon" is only for the purposes of the AREA specifications. No spike manufactured as a track spike to be used by the railroad industry has ever been made from tool steel greater than 1030. Spikes manufactured prior to 1898 were wrought iron. I received this information from Wellington Industries Engineering department, a wholly owned subsidiary of Sheffield Steel (at the time) who manufactured the vast majority of track spikes used worldwide. It was quite the detective experience too.

This is not to say you can't sharpen them but they are not an edge holding steel compared to so many other available choices. as 1030 they will never get harder than Rc 45 without applying very specific circumstances to the spike that alter the quench like using SuperQuench or an alternate but then the hardened skin is just that, a couple thousandths of skin on a poor steel, or the spike itself, as in forging a spike from tool steel in the first place (redundant), splitting the spike and welding in a tooth of high carbon tool steel (more work), using PW steel to forge the spike (a lot more work), all of which alter the spike to a great degree and push it out of the original claimed potential.

And yet people love to buy spike blades. Go figure!

Exactly. They are good for forging all sorts of stuff. I don't fault anyone using them. I have. But i don't make silly claims to get Rc 62 on them as knife shaped objects. Facts are difficult to spin into myths.