Thread: RSO # 1

It is looking really nice, I don't remember this thread, and for your first try, I think you've got a natural touch for this type of thing, looks really good...

Well I was messing with the tongs and thought about the razor. I heated it up pretty good to punch the pivot hole. I let that cool down in the planter. I picked it up by hand and then put it back in the forge and checked periodically until it was not magnetic and let it cool down the same way. Did that twice. Overheat? Won't know until something goes wrong I guess. Bruno's words of "learn the fire" kept ringing in my ear so I just went for it. I wanted a hole in the dang thing anyway. I am sure I could have drilled it the way it feels under a file but I am glad I tried the punch now.

Mr. Blue, he said that he took it up to "almost magnetic" for purposes of normalization which, to the best of my understanding requires you to well above the curie point to be effective. That is why I mentioned the sub critical anneal/stress relief, although not in those full terms. As for the issues with hyper euctetoid steels, I am just the messenger. I get that info from guys like Kevin Cashen, Roman Landes, etc. and once I took that advice and stopped doing the "kitty litter" anneal with W2, it improved the product. What I DID find out early on the hard way is that O1 is probably not something you want to try to HT in a one brick forge. As for me, i will stick to asking questions about razor construction for now.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Okay, I must have missed something. 10Pups said he took the steel to "past non magnetic". O-1 is a pretty simple steel as most go and served the knife community well for many many years without a lot of reported problems. I'm curious and just have to know more than you've alluded to.

Non magnetic is a fairly safe place to be if the heat treater is looking for carbon going into solution and doesn't have a bunch of technical gear in the shop. Going way past non magnetic could be an issue and I don't argue that chromium is an aggressive carbide former, but there are some things we just don't know about how he did it. None of us were there last year when this process started. The business of "not so desirable elements" requires an explanation.

Getting new makers started does not require them to have a bunch of amazing equipment, nor should they be dissuaded from trying without that stuff. Blade makers did just fine for centuries without what we know is available today.

At first I thought you meant I said.... But, I see your talking about Skip. I took what he said as critical even though I read what he typed. This type of mix up is exactly why I am going with an oven to learn all this.

The ideal temp is around 1500 as I recall. So I just took my own POP quiz here. Correct me on that if I am wrong.

For normalizing O1, more like 1600F. For austenizing, 1450-1500 is what I have read. If there is such as thing as "generic' temp for a lot of the carbon steels that you might use, it is 1500F. I have used that on steels like 1084, 15N20, CruForgeV and 115W8 with good results. As best as I can tell, the general rule is that if you have a lower carbon content like with 5160, you want to bump the temp up a bit and if you are using a steel with much more than say .85% carbon, you might want to think about dropping it a bit for "cutting tool" use. The reason that I stay a little high with stuff like Cru Forge Vand 115W8 is because you arguably want more carbon in solution to form lots of hard little carbides from the fairly substantial amounts of vanadium or tungsten in those steels. The current conventional wisdom is the 52100 works better for thin edged tough field knives, kitchen knives, razors and such when done at 1475 than at the 1525-1550F "industry standard" temp for making bearings. Likewise, the optimum temp for say normal 1% W2 is like 1460-1475 if high hardness is your goal. On the other hand, I have seen smiths go as low as 1425F with a pretty long soak by W2 standards in order to get a crazy active hamon.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

At first I thought you meant I said.... But, I see your talking about Skip. I took what he said as critical even though I read what he typed. This type of mix up is exactly why I am going with an oven to learn all this.

The ideal temp is around 1500 as I recall. So I just took my own POP quiz here. Correct me on that if I am wrong.

Let's stick to O-1 and not wander around all over the place. It's an unnecessary distraction.

O1 could have a carbon content anywhere between .85% and 1.0%. None of us could predict this accurately in a home shop without the necessary tools. The amount of carbon can affect the austenitizing temperature hence the range of acceptable temperatures for heat preparation. If you had a magnet you have a pretty good estimate of the steel's readiness at austenitizing temperature without having to know the exact specifications of the steel. A low tech solution to an uncontrolled variable. And given how easy O-1 is to heat treat and work with, a good solution for the project we are discussing.

Some times simple things really are the best.

Originally Posted by JDM61

As for the issues with hyper euctetoid steels, I am just the messenger. I get that info from guys like Kevin Cashen, Roman Landes, etc.

Don't be. This is a simple steel, being used by a beginner. Unless you have personal experience that says otherwise, don't bring up things you heard from someone or other. We can namedrop all day long but that isn't impressing anyone here, especially when what you say goes against what we know to work well with O1. There is no need to overcomplicate things.

I have used O1 and don't consider it to be a simple steel compared to say 1084.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Don't be. This is a simple steel, being used by a beginner. Unless you have personal experience that says otherwise, don't bring up things you heard from someone or other. We can namedrop all day long but that isn't impressing anyone here, especially when what you say goes against what we know to work well with O1. There is no need to overcomplicate things.

Sure. But that doesn't make it difficult either. 52100 can be tricky and a bitch to work. O1 is easy by comparison, readily available, and cheap enough that it is a good steel for beginners. And as long as you don't overheat for long periods of time, heat treatment is pretty simple as well.

When it comes to heat treatment, some blade smiths can be as bad as audiophiles when it comes to technical specifications. There is no doubt that you will be able to find big name blade smiths who say that you really need specialty synthetic quenching oil, but that doesn't mean they make actual sense.

Take SB1, the niobium alloyed stainless. I was told by many I'd have to send it out for heat treatment. And if you want that last half point on the hardness scale, that is probably true. But I've learned to use nothing but charcoal fire, and still get consistent 59.5 on the Rockwell C scale. There is really no need to overthink things.

It is 01 I am concerned with. I decided to use this for my first 10 or so razors because of the ease of use and still get a good razor while I learn.
For all intents and purposes this is an 01 thread thank you :<0)
All the other info is interesting but waaay off topic.