Thread: Some thoughts about horn.

Like Ivory and Bone,horn is hygroscopic,It expands with Humidty Changes.
Do not Know about horn but I can Gaurantee that if you seal Ivory on both sides it will Crack.

Yea, that is a problem with horn as it tends to gain or loose moisture like ivory, hygroscopic effect, and changes shape because of it. If horn can be sealed so that it can neither gain nor loose moisture content you would think it would stay straight and not warp.

I am guessing that whatever the ivory was sealed with still allowed moisture to escape but not enter the ivory so it cracks when it dries out. Whatever the sealant used should allow no in or ex-filtration of moisture to stabilize the moisture content of the object sealed.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Yea, that is a problem with horn as it tends to gain or loose moisture like ivory, hygroscopic effect, and changes shape because of it. If horn can be sealed so that it can neither gain nor loose moisture content you would think it would stay straight and not warp.

I am guessing that whatever the ivory was sealed with still allowed moisture to escape but not enter the ivory so it cracks when it dries out. Whatever the sealant used should allow no in or ex-filtration of moisture to stabilize the moisture content of the object sealed.

Bob

They never sealed Ivory,they Oiled it with mineral oil,This allows transpiration as do's ren-wax.
I can ship Ivory from my local with a humidty of 25% to Florida with a Humidity of 90% and it will Expand up to .004 of an inch (yes Ihave Measured it).
I have seen Ivory collections (netsuki) that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollors,they are stored in Climate controlled cabinates, removed once a year and oiled.
If you ever buy raw ivory let it stabilize in your local for several weeks before working with it or it can cause you grief.
Store items containing Ivory as you would fine wines or cigars.

Yea, I understand that. I do not disbelieve you.

If whatever material, be it ivory, horn or any other, whose cells can and do take in or release moisture be sealed with a non permeable barrier then they should neither shrink nor expand. Obviously mineral oil and ren-wax are not up to that task so a controlled climate storage is the only way to try and preserve them. I don't know if such a sealant exists just asking.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Yea, I understand that. I do not disbelieve you.

If whatever material, be it ivory, horn or any other, whose cells can and do take in or release moisture be sealed with a non permeable barrier then they should neither shrink nor expand. Obviously mineral oil and ren-wax are not up to that task so a controlled climate storage is the only way to try and preserve them. I don't know if such a sealant exists just asking.

Bob

Define Sealant,you cannot seal some natural materials,perhaps protectorant is a better word.

Looked up "sealant definition" and the first result was this "material used for sealing something so as to make it airtight or watertight.". I would think that mineral oil and ren-wax might better classed as a protectorate.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

Looked up "sealant definition" and the first result was this "material used for sealing something so as to make it airtight or watertight.". I would think that mineral oil and ren-wax might better classed as a protectorate.

Bob

Agreed>>>>>>>>>>

HOLY CR@P, now I have to buy a new humidor or else smoke up all the cigars I have just to make room for my horn scaled razors. Will the madness never end?

Originally Posted by guitstik

HOLY CR@P, now I have to buy a new humidor or else smoke up all the cigars I have just to make room for my horn scaled razors. Will the madness never end?

No, not really! Just assure each razor either has a place vertically for free air movement or in a case where both scales receive the same humidity.
Some tooth brush tubes:
~Richard
Dollar stores usually have some of differing types.

Lets not forget that most if not all old horn scales were formed by heating and clamping in a vice, At the heats used thermoplastic horn nearly melts, some old descriptions of the clamps mention horn dripping down the sides, so on occasion it did become liquid.

In order to stop the clamps rusting and prevent the horn sticking, copious amounts of talllow were used. This is an animal fat and for all I know it mixed with the horn if the horn was liquid enough.

Once the clamps are cooled, a lengthy process in some instances seeing as how descriptions say a hole was dug and a set or rack of clamps was buried in it, the horn blanks were removed, trimmed and oiled with neatsfoot oil.

They were then polished, using tripoli powder in oil, cleaned, oile again, put into pairs and sent to the settr-in, who installed tbe blade, No doubt a final coat of oily or waxy matter was applied before wrapping in waxed paper znd sealing in coffin boxes ready for sale.

Thats a lot of fat, oil and wax protecting the scale.

I don't know but strongly suspect that warping is a kind of reversion to the horns natural state: a tapered, curving, conical form forced flat by beat.

Regards,
Neil