Thread: What's the history of SR metallurgy over the past 200 years?

Originally Posted by guitstik

Still, the Middle East 800-1000AD was and is a far cry from the 1700's when it was (re)discovered.

It certainly is the program on the Ulfbert said the steel used in them blades would not be seen in Europe again for another 1000 years...........it boggles the mind really, well it does mine !

@Mike Blue - I'm confused (easily done) are you saying the ulfbert steel was made by the Franks or just the steel produced by the Franks at that time was prized ?

Lifted from Wikipedia

The name[edit]
"Ulfberht" is a Frankish word whose meaning is not known.[1] The inscription "+VLFBERH+T" used Latin letters. The most common hypotheses are that it was the name of a swordsmith who passed his craft on to apprentices or family members, that it was the name of a group of craftsmen.[1] The word is possibly a compound of the elements Ulfr 'wolf' (old Norse) and beraht 'light, bright, shining' (old high German, old Saxon).

There are several variant spellings on the Ulfberht swords, of the more than 166 found by archeologists. Dr. Alan Williams (an archaeometallurgist who works at the Wallace Collection, a national museum in London.) has looked at 44 Ulfberht swords, and made a key discovery in the metallurgical composition of the swords and the connection between the two different spellings. 9 of these 44 were found to have the very high carbon steel and were spelled in the "+VLFBERH+T" manner.[4]

+VLFBERH+T Swords spelled in this manner have a higher carbon content (crucible steel) making them stronger and more flexible than the iron swords of the day.

+VLFBERHT+ Swords spelled in this manner, and other variants, have a lower carbon content making them considerably weaker and brittle. Dr. Williams hypothesizes that these swords may have been copies or cheap knockoffs of the real "+VLFBERH+T" swords.

There are a lot of stories about the Franks, that the steel production was associated with the lifetime of one monastery and the craft quality there only lasted a couple hundred years. The quality of the steel is recorded in several ancient Islamic texts. It was sought after by Arab purchasers as blades and raw material. I hope the wiki quote helps.

Another historical influence on how widespread and how rapidly the craft of smithing moved across the planet has to do with war. Warlords are always looking for weapons. The local blacksmiths in a conquered area would likely be swept up and their lives traded for making more weapons, if not hamstrung or worse. Smiths working together had to share skills and a homogenizing effect occurs. Those skills then expand across a territory. Just as easily an area of local talent could be wiped out by an enemy hoping to disable weapon production. The result then is that knowledge is lost.

What fascinates me most is how the knowledge keeps popping up again in disparate places.

Loving this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

I have read that there are accounts of invaders sparing local blacksmiths and simply put them to work for their own needs because blacksmiths were just too useful and valuable to waste.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I have read that there are accounts of invaders sparing local blacksmiths and simply put them to work for their own needs because blacksmiths were just too useful and valuable to waste.

It makes sense especially if the blacksmith is good. More / better weapons to give an advantage on the battlefield would be something any self respecting war lord would jump all over

England dominated the battlefield for a time with the Longbow. Imagine a Viking army all kitted out with an ulfbert (the genuine ones not the copies made in Taiwan ) now that would have been a terrifying prospect for an army to face.

Enjoying this thread

Originally Posted by Bruno

I have read that there are accounts of invaders sparing local blacksmiths and simply put them to work for their own needs because blacksmiths were just too useful and valuable to waste.

One of my neighbour's ancestors, a certain John 'Boy' Smith, came from Africa and was spared when his village was invaded by slavers for much the same reason...

Regards,
Neil

What happened to the OP?

Originally Posted by Bruno

I have read that there are accounts of invaders sparing local blacksmiths and simply put them to work for their own needs because blacksmiths were just too useful and valuable to waste.

If only everyone saw us as that valuable today!!

Originally Posted by Adam G.

If only everyone saw us as that valuable today!!

If wars were still fought with swords you would be

I think it was Einstein who said "I know not what weapons world war three will be fought with, but world war four will be fought with sticks and stones" If however there any blacksmith about you can add straight razors to that list

Originally Posted by mike1011

Originally Posted by Adam G.

If only everyone saw us as that valuable today!!

If wars were still fought with swords you would be

Indeed, nowadays if you're an expert in nuclear, biological, or cyber weapons you're really valuable. Some things haven't changed much.

As a related example - there are a number of first rate scientists who suddenly disappear from the publication stream - their work gets 'classified' and some bits show up only decades later.