Thread: Fresh Damascus

If austenized below the saturation point, say at 1475F, 52100 is going to have finer grain and more toughness than O1 at the expense of some abrasion resistance. If austenized at the "industry standard" temps designed for bearings, it will have a lot more primary chromium carbides.

Originally Posted by AKwildman

We shall see,I think it will work fine,5200 is considered close to O1 and O1 is my go to steel.The 5160 should be ok as it produces a edge that dosent get chippy.My favorite Damascus is simply O1 and 15N20

Originally Posted by Bruno

Kinda skeptical about that blank, considering that 38 $ is extremely cheap. It makes me think about thise 70$ ebay damascus razors

It is cheap and by most accounts worth the money. It is certainly better than the stuff from Pakistan. Beyond that, your mileage may vary. Brad is a very nice guy and if anything is wrong with the steel, he will replace it.

Originally Posted by JDM61

It is cheap and by most accounts worth the money. It is certainly better than the stuff from Pakistan. Beyond that, your mileage may vary. Brad is a very nice guy and if anything is wrong with the steel, he will replace it.

Just looking at the layers that are specified, the carbon content will be low. The pivot hole is kinda large as well.
Now, looking at the economics of the situation: there are a couple of dollars of steel in this blank. Then follow forge welding and 5 folds, cleanup, grinding. And then there has to be a big enough profit margin after VAT and income tax... It may not come from Pakistan but probably comes from some other faraway-istan where labor is cheap and ohsa and QA nonexisting. That's the only way they can end up at 38$ retail.

That people have reported it is worth the money means as much as people liking gold dollar razors or zeepk razors.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Just looking at the layers that are specified, the carbon content will be low. The pivot hole is kinda large as well.
Now, looking at the economics of the situation: there are a couple of dollars of steel in this blank. Then follow forge welding and 5 folds, cleanup, grinding. And then there has to be a big enough profit margin after VAT and income tax... It may not come from Pakistan but probably comes from some other faraway-istan where labor is cheap and ohsa and QA nonexisting. That's the only way they can end up at 38$ retail.

That people have reported it is worth the money means as much as people liking gold dollar razors or zeepk razors.

Not sure what your looking at Bruno ? This is American made Damascus.Pivot hole ? It's 1/16

Originally Posted by AKwildman

Not sure what your looking at Bruno ? This is American made Damascus.Pivot hole ? It's 1/16

I meant the Alabama Damascus razor blank that was linked to earlier in this discussinon.

It comes from Alabama, not Pakistan or any other low cost location. Jacksonville, Alabama to be specific which is about halfway between Birmingham and Atlanta right north of Gadsden. . He provides all of the damascus that Bear & Sons uses, plus some to Blue Ridge Knife works for the stuff they have Kershaw make for them. IIRC, Brad Vice, the guy who owns the company, bought all of the power hammers and other equipment from another company. He has a few big Nazel and/or Chambersburg hammers in the shop. The reason hat he can sell if for $38 is that he makes a LOT of sheets of the stuff and has the blanks laser cut. You can see a video of his shop on YouTube. I counted 5 guys in the shop of which a 4 were clearly employees forging the product. When Brad shows up even at our small regional knife show, he typically has a like 3 8 foot long tables full of product including billets or sheets that are maybe as wide as 8 inches. If you figure that a razor blank probably has he equivalent of a bar 1/4 inch x 1 inch by 4.5 inches, that works out to a bit over $8 per inch and there is no sales tax on that unless you have an Alabama address.. Cheap, but not like the Pakistan stuff where $38 all get you a 12 inch blade bowie blank or a finished knife not much smaller than that and that is AFTER it has been imported and the local seller has added his cut. According to their website, the guys at Smederij Atelier Alkmaar get like 4.50 Euros per centimeter or US $12.50 per inch for their 4.3 x 29-33 mm stuff, but of course, that includes a 20% premium for VAT. Unless you are really famous, you are lucky to get $10-12 an inch for random pattern 1 inch x 3/16 over here. That is the same premium that guys like Bill Moran and Bill Bagwell charged for it over regular carbon steel in the late 1970's when only a few guys made it. The American market is awash with guys making pattern welded steel and most of them don't have to make a living doing it.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I meant the Alabama Damascus razor blank that was linked to earlier in this discussinon.

Thanks JDM61 I am confident the billet I purchased from them is of great quality and should produce a fine razor ! Will it be better or worse performance wise compared to my own O1 - 15N20 blend I can't say and that would probably be subjective anyway.I'm willing to give it a go and the individual that ordered the razor wanted it as soon as possible and was fine with me using someone else's damascus.And just to set the record straight I wouldn't make a letter opener out of Pakistani anything .

I am somewhat agnostic when it comes to the quality of the stuff because I have met a goodly number of people, including some high end folder makers, who say they like it and and a few who, well, didn't. I am saying that it is inexpensive damascus but not CHEAP damascus. They stand behind their product and that is a good thing. Would i use it? No, but I make my own, Would I use it if i didn't make my own? No again, but I am a steel geek so I have no problem overpaying for something that appeals to my geekiness. I would pass on the stuff for similar reasons as to those Bruno raises, specifically the use of 203E and 5160 in the mix, but I don't think that it makes it a "bad" steel per se, just not one that I am interested in because I want a steel that I can send out the door at 60+ Rc. . Another reason for that would be that 52100 and 5160 have a fair amount of chrome and that will result in what I consider a less than attractive gray etch. So there you have my honest, complete and unsolicited opinion.

Originally Posted by AKwildman

Thanks JDM61 I am confident the billet I purchased from them is of great quality and should produce a fine razor ! Will it be better or worse performance wise compared to my own O1 - 15N20 blend I can't say and that would probably be subjective anyway.I'm willing to give it a go and the individual that ordered the razor wanted it as soon as possible and was fine with me using someone else's damascus.And just to set the record straight I wouldn't make a letter opener out of Pakistani anything .

All good points,The only other Damascus I've used from other makers is from two fingers and they make some good stuff out of 180 and 15N20 I just wasn't able to lay my hands on any at the time.

10XX and 15N20 is the old standby. The only "problem" that you might run into is that some of the 10XX steel you get may not have the higher percentages of manganese which means they won't etch quite as black. I still have a little stash of old Schrade 1084 that has like .8% manganese. i would love to get hold of some of the 02 that Bruno and the other European guys use because it has a LOT of manganese and therefore the potential for really good contrast. But alas, we don't have it over here. Hell, the 1084 that many of us use here in the USA is actually made in Germany
Edit. I have seen some of the European guys get O2 based damascus almost as black using strong instant coffee as a post FeCl etch treatment as what we see over here when guy use stuff like the Oxpho cold blue solution, but with the added benefit of using a "food safe" liquid to do that final "etch" That might be a good thing with things like razors and kitchen knives. Who knows?

Originally Posted by AKwildman

All good points,The only other Damascus I've used from other makers is from two fingers and they make some good stuff out of 180 and 15N20 I just wasn't able to lay my hands on any at the time.