Thread: If you were going to make a production razor...

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

I have a contact that is a machine builder. I gave him some info on the type of machine, off the top of his head he estimated 25-30k for 1 machine.
Given there would be time to test and tweek I'm saying you could add another 5-10k to a finished production machine

Which 'Machine'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tkfN8tAJE

Originally Posted by cudarunner

Which 'Machine'?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tkfN8tAJE

I should have been clearer..lol
Yes! a modern day double wheel hollow grinder.

I've also had a guy price something similar and he thought you may be able to do it for 15-20k on the cheap side.

Man, they must turn out 1000 or more a day easy. That press set up really eliminates almost all of the metal removal you would do have to do.

Originally Posted by MattCB

Man, they must turn out 1000 or more a day easy. That press set up really eliminates almost all of the metal removal you would do have to do.

I could totally be wrong but I would guess they don't turn out anything close to 1k a day.
If they did, I bet they wouldn't have a shortage

The world is a big market, but you may be (and probably are) correct.

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

I would guess they don't turn out anything close to 1k a day.
If they did, I bet they wouldn't have a shortage

My friends in Germany tell me that unlike in the US once people are hired and trained they are kept as employees whether the production goes up or down (Not Laid Off).

So they are reluctant to hire and train the people who are in my opinion the most important employees and that are those who grind the razors. DOVO and others are worried that this resurgence in interest with straight razors will fade and then they will have recruited and trained employees that will no longer be needed.

Originally Posted by cudarunner

My friends in Germany tell me that unlike in the US once people are hired and trained they are kept as employees whether the production goes up or down (Not Laid Off).

So they are reluctant to hire and train the people who are in my opinion the most important employees and that are those who grind the razors. DOVO and others are worried that this resurgence in interest with straight razors will fade and then they will have recruited and trained employees that will no longer be needed.

I can tell you from first-hand experience that this is true. European countries are much more Socialist in this regard, which can be both good and bad. It's a much bigger deal to lay someone off and a company faces negative consequences, such as higher taxes, decreased government credits, and paying more to Social Security for each employee they lay off or fire.

As a matter of fact, my father, who owns a small business in Europe, has a particular employee who has turned out to be extremely lazy and undependable, however it would cost the company more money to lay him off than it does to just keep him. The only recourse one has in this situation is to be mean to him and make work unbearable, hoping he'll quit or will do something that he can be fired for (again, much more difficult in Europe). My father is too nice though and isn't mean to anyone, so the guy has been leaching off my fathers' generosity for several years. The other employees hate him and know there's nothing my father can do because he's too nice, so they find their own ways to let him know he's a leech and not liked, but unless he quits there's nothing they can do either.

Another employee, a secretary, had been stealing from the company for years... My father had suspected for a while, but couldn't do anything about it until he got proof. He did last year and could fire her, proving to the government she was stealing, and thus not facing as many negative repercussions. However, because he's nice he has kept her, just letting her know that they know she was stealing and have every right to fire her, so she better stop. (She is near retirement age and takes care of her granddaughter, so my dad feels bad firing her)

A couple of years ago the company wasn't doing very well due to the economy. Here, they would have laid off everyone except indispensable staff. My dad is too nice and hard-working to lay off anyone, he would have rather the company failed. So he talked to everyone and they (especially my parents) tightened their belts. My parents had to dip into their personal savings and didn't get any paychecks for over a year, but none of the employees missed a single paycheck. They did all kinds of cost cutting and everyone felt it (no lights on in the offices while the sun was out, maximizing every trip and drop of gas in the trucks, etc) but no one was laid off. As a result, now that the economy is better, things are great, but some of their competitors, who did lay off people, are still struggling because they have all those government repercussions for every person laid off, and a few have closed their doors for good.

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

I could totally be wrong but I would guess they don't turn out anything close to 1k a day.
If they did, I bet they wouldn't have a shortage

I took a look at the video again. If you look at the bin being used to catch the razor blanks for the second press operation (where the excess is removed) you can see a few hundred in the bin. If you look at the rest of the video, they have to be turning out at least a few hundred per day. Just to pay the wages of the workers, utilities and the rest would require around that many.

Originally Posted by MattCB

If you look at the rest of the video, they have to be turning out at least a few hundred per day. Just to pay the wages of the workers, utilities and the rest would require around that many.

Actually, more. But may I gently draw everyone's attention to the CNC robots used to produce the bottom end line of Dovo razors?

Originally Posted by MattCB

Let me see if I can tease out some more opinions The experienced makers are pretty much saying it's possible but.... (insert quite a few large issues you have to deal with).

Would it make a difference if the price point was higher? Say $160 - $180, maybe $220 - $240? I'm still curious in regards to a production IMHO once you get to $200+ it becomes a more viable option but then there's still the important part... customers

At $200-250 I think if becomes more do able.

Originally Posted by MattCB

I took a look at the video again. If you look at the bin being used to catch the razor blanks for the second press operation (where the excess is removed) you can see a few hundred in the bin. If you look at the rest of the video, they have to be turning out at least a few hundred per day. Just to pay the wages of the workers, utilities and the rest would require around that many.

I'm 99% sure that part of the video is not Dovo, it's the drop forge that supplies all the German manufactures

Originally Posted by RobinK

No offense, but I doubt that anyone but a hardcore patriot would buy your razors stateside, let alone in Europe. know quite a few Hart razors, and they are simply not as good as a Solingen razor that costs the same or less.

I disagree, if a US company decided to jump in and product hollow ground razors (not 1/4 like Hart) I think they would pull buyer away for the German companies.
Right now the thing they (EU brands) have in their favor is true hollows grind razors and price.. If another company can produce the same, at high quality, I don't think it would matter where it was made.

Originally Posted by RobinK

Actually, more. But may I gently draw everyone's attention to the CNC robots used to produce the bottom end line of Dovo razors?

I would like to see the machine making razors.. honestly that's the first I've heard of it.