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Thread: Forging Perceived Value
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05-16-2016, 12:17 AM #11
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05-16-2016, 05:31 AM #12
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Thanked: 1936In a blind test, nobody could yell the difference. The steel doesn't care.
Southeastern Oklahoma/Northeastern Texas helper. Please don't hesitate to contact me.
Thank you and God Bless, Scott
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05-16-2016, 06:00 AM #13
If they know how to use a coal fire forge then no difference.
If they don't coke the coal first then you get sulfur and other crap in the steel and the blade sucks.
Personally, I find a propane forge produces a better blade due to consistent fire control - or maybe I just suck with using coal.Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead - Charles Bukowski
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05-16-2016, 07:33 AM #14Til shade is gone, til water is gone, Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath.
To spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the Last Day
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05-16-2016, 08:26 AM #15
...and your steel is made from all-natural ores without synthetic additives or preservatives on top of being highly recyclable and beneficial to the environment, preventing the dumping of potentially thousands of cart's during its lifetime.
ps - I hate tofu, but I do like me some edemame.Shaved by Grace
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05-16-2016, 03:18 PM #16
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Thanked: 995We have a on-the-one-hand versus the other disparity. Bruno has opined that forging causes carbon loss and Mainaman allows that the smith can adjust the carbon content. Both are right and Mainaman tends toward being a little more right in this case. All that's needed is more time and experience.
A knowledgable smith can adjust the atmosphere of most any type of fire (independent of fuel source). When I'm welding patterned stuff, I want a reducing atmosphere (carbon rich - generally carbon monoxide). This also holds true when I'm smelting steel at home. The carbon gradient tends to mean that iron will absorb more carbon than is burned away and steel will form. If I have steel that has too much carbon, an oxidizing fire (oxygen rich) will burn away surface carbon from the steel. A carbon neutral atmosphere suggests no carbon loss or gain.
From my experience with coal (worked these fires for about seven years) and charcoal, the forge can exhibit all three types of atmosphere that are dependent on the distance of the heat from the tuyere (the source of oxygen). A knowledgeable smith could hold the material in the right part of the fire to accomplish any of the above goals. I would say that a propane forge is a more even environment but there will be more oxygen nearer the port where the air/gas mix enters the forge and a knowledgeable smith can control the air gas temperature mix to produce the atmosphere they want by adjusting the fuel burn.
Scott is right...the steel don't care what kind of heat it is.
Jimmy's right about the romance. There was an intense argument about forging vs stock removal about 30 plus years ago. The truth of that disagreement is that all things become equal in the heat treatment and there is essentially no difference in the final product if the HT is good. Plus, all steel is forged from the ladle to general barstock sizes. Anything a hand-smith does is minor compared to all that work done beforehand and won't likely influence performance to any great degree if their shop practices are acceptable (nothing is fool-proof). In the end, the forger still has to grind away some steel and we all become stock removal types to some degree or other.
As always, there are variables that can change any of the above.Last edited by Mike Blue; 05-16-2016 at 03:25 PM.
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05-16-2016, 03:30 PM #17
I just have to step in here as a moderator ............ Please note the unwritten SRP rule when replying to this ...... or any thread ......
Thank you for your understanding ...........Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.
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05-16-2016, 03:55 PM #18
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05-16-2016, 04:04 PM #19
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Thanked: 3225Thanks to the posters for a technically enlightening thread. That said, as an end user all I personally care about is that the end product has the correct geometry, an excellent grind and is properly heat treated so as to be eminently usable. How it winds up that way I'll leave for the expert makers to worry about and take all claims of which method of production is superior with a grain of salt.
OTH this thread has given me a better appreciation of the effort and skill that goes into making a blade.
BobLife is a terminal illness in the end
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05-16-2016, 04:40 PM #20
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Thanked: 3795