Thread: Re-using Sheffield Steel?

I think if I needed to make a new razor out of a bunch of old razors, id do a canned sanmai construction. with as thin as the ground portion of the old razors are, I think you would lose that steel almost immediately if you were to try to a forge weld them to scale. then there is not knowing what the old razors were and how to heat treat steel from them.

so I would make a can, then pack as many old razors as I had in that can, and then fill it with 1084 powder, weld a lid on, and then forge weld the can. then peel the can off, and forge the billet into a bar, and then forge weld that bar onto each side of a piece of known, clean 1095, and then make the razor from that. that way you would have the coolness of the old razor steel, with a known clean edge steel that you know how to heat treat.

I have not played with smelting steel so couldn't tell you how to do that. closest ive come to playing with that is melting iron and casting it.

I have played with forge welded cable. and while it is cool to be able to take a piece of junk wire rope and turn it into a knife, I'm not all that fond of it. the pattern to me is sort of plain, and at the end of the day you spent all that time prepping the rope, welding it, forging it out, grinding, heat treating, finishing, ect..... and what you end up with is a chunk of steel that you don't know what it has in it. when you could have started the day with good, clean, known materials and have gotten known repeatable results.

I think the issue with melting down high carbon steel is that you'll lose the carbon unless you have a way of keeping oxygen away from the steel. It ain't cast iron but you might turn it into that! So the forge-welding ideas are better but even then you have to worry about keeping scale off the steel when you heat it or it won't fuse. And if you put fully hollow-ground razors into a forge that's hot enough for forge-welding I suspect the thin parts will mostly just turn into scale or disappear at high heat; you'll just have the spine and tang. Wedges would be your best bet and you would probably need to worry a little about keeping the mating surfaces nearly flat and unoxidized (like with flux).

But, what the heck do I know, I never tried it and IANABOAM (I am not a blacksmith or a metallurgist).

The only sensible way to do it is crucible smelting.
However that is a fairly tricky and pretty dangerous process. It's not rocket science, but working with molten metal can be extremely dangerous if you go into it without knowledge or experience.

I should have clarified - I would be going down the pattern welded billet road, not smelting. I was nervous enough melting down some copper and aluminium in my forge. No way I'm stepping up to molten iron until I have some idea as to what I'd be doing.

Originally Posted by Cangooner

I should have clarified - I would be going down the pattern welded billet road, not smelting. I was nervous enough melting down some copper and aluminium in my forge. No way I'm stepping up to molten iron until I have some idea as to what I'd be doing.

I think that would be a really nice project, kind of a spiritual successor! I can even send you a donor or two if I sort through my stuff.

I don't see it as practical. For pattern welding you need stuff to be flat-ish enough to form a billet that will stay together. Pile a bunch of razors together, hit it at welding temperature, and things will be very exciting around your anvil

Hi,

before I started making razors I had specialized on making kitchenknives from self alloyed and casted steel. So I have a lot of experience with melting and casting steel. It would be easy (with the corresponding equipement) to melt the old razors, but it wouldn´t be "Sheffield" steel anymore after this process. Because you must add aluminum and glas to the steel which act as protection against oxidation, but at the same time also purify the steel. Further the crucibles have always a high carbon content which will enhance the carbon content of the resulting steel. So if you start with a steel with about 1% Carbon, you will end with about 1,2%.
The result will be a good carbon steel, but no longer sheffield steel.
Pattern welding would be tricky too for the reasons Bruno mentioned above.
It´s possible, but you would need to forgeweld it many many times in order to get a homogene material (similar to the process used by japanese swordsmiths to refine the tamahagane steel)
This is a project for someone with much ambition and time or someone with a lot of money to have this made as a custom order.

best regards,
Ulrik

Originally Posted by Bruno

I don't see it as practical. For pattern welding you need stuff to be flat-ish enough to form a billet that will stay together. Pile a bunch of razors together, hit it at welding temperature, and things will be very exciting around your anvil

Ah, but not if they're squared off first.

The makers of "Forged in Fire" (http://www.history.com/shows/forged-in-fire) should do a razor episode. But no, it's always weapons, weapons, weapons. Boring!

Originally Posted by jmabuse

The makers of "Forged in Fire" (Forged in Fire Full Episodes, Video & More | HISTORY) should do a razor episode. But no, it's always weapons, weapons, weapons. Boring!

I wish they would branch out into other aspects of smithing beyond bladesmithing. But I imagine that's where the ratings are.