Thread: Damascus Custom Set - need help please.

Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Hi there, yeah, but given that we're talking about damascus blades here, taping the spine is part of the package anyways, so nothing lost then really - plus I'd tape the spine of any custom razor to be honest. These patterns he does are so intricate and attractive, it's gonna be hard to pick just one... but I'll manage I'm sure.

Just one huh? Sure.

Originally Posted by TiltbackJack

Just one huh? Sure.

Yeah, hey wait a second! He's said he's getting a PAIR of them!


The nerve!

Hey fellas, yeah I said I'm getting a "Matching Pair" done, so only have the burden of picking one pattern.. and I'm actually thinking of keeping it pretty traditional with a woodgrain or waterdrop pattern...

But now you got me thinking of the possibilities with two patters . .
Maybe I should work in a 'Jekyll & Hyde' theme with one razor looking all sophisticated and the other a little more dishevelled - know what I mean? Hmmmm, so many options, Lord why me??! WHY ME?!??

If you're shelling out for two customes, why on earth would you want them to be exactly the same?! (OK, a matched pair IS pretty cool...)

But the ability to get two of those different kinds of patterns? Two different blades shapes?

Yeah, I've already specified a matching pair in terms of blade shape and thats really what i want, but I will think about the different patterns - that might be pretty cool actually.

Now guys, I've spoken to the maker and he thinks that a spine thickness of 7mm or more is just way too thick... he says the blade will look "silly" I think he's just not into bigger blades and probably reckons a razor should be dainty etc.. But do you guys think a spine thickness of 6.5 / 7mm on a blade 27mm from spine to edge is gonna look strange?? I reckon even an 8mm thick spine will look in proportion - but he's got me worried about the aesthetics now...

Any thoughts? Any reasons to consider a thinner spine? is there a ratio for these measurements??

Originally Posted by Philadelph

I don't think you'd find a lot of knifemakers who would admit to reeeeally not knowing anything about razors before they agreed to make you one. Then again, everyone has to start somewhere and he says he already has.

Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Now guys, I've spoken to the maker and he thinks that a spine thickness of 7mm or more is just way too thick... he says the blade will look "silly" I think he's just not into bigger blades and probably reckons a razor should be dainty etc.. But do you guys think a spine thickness of 6.5 / 7mm on a blade 27mm from spine to edge is gonna look strange??

He's obviously never seen an 8/8 vintage razor in person... this is what I was talking about when knifemakers don't actually study the products they agree to make. I've got at least three 8/8+ antique razors and all have at LEAST a .250" spine.

There is a ratio! Razors don't have spines for looks, they have them because that's what sets the angle of the razor! The ratio changes based upon what angle you want the razor to be sharpened at, so we have to resort to math.

Trigonometry handles the spine width for us. if you want a 16 degree angle, then we split the 16 into two, so we are effectively dealing with a right angle. so 8 degrees for each half of the razor. if the razor is an 8/8, then that's one inch. so we can calculate the width of the razor in inches easily. For simple resolution, well turn the 8/8 into 32/32. Let X = half of the spine width.

tan(8) = x/32 So we multiply both sides by 32 to isolate X

32 * tan(8) = X, which is 32 * 0.140540835 = X when we multiply we get:

4.49730671 = X

Since X = half of the spine width, we have to multiply our result by two.

2 * 4.49730671 = 8.99461342

Since this is half of 1/32000ths of an inch away, we can go ahead and round that up to 9. Our unit of measure was 32nds of an inch, so the spine width of an 8/8 razor honed to a 16 degree total angle should be 9/32ths of an inch.

So, according to math, Philadelph is right that you should make the spine at least 0.250". If your custom maker says it will "look funny", then ditch him. A razor is a tool, and looks come secondary to function. If the spine is too thin, then the angle will be very low and the edge gets thin as well. Thinner edges dull faster as they have less strength. They will be easier to ding, roll when stropping, and everything else that is bad when using a straight. It's obvious to me that this guy doesn't have a clue. A good razor maker should be able to do this. If a razor maker has seen enough razors in his day, then he'll be able to "eyeball" it and see what looks right from experience.

I wouldn't be spending that kind of money on a guy who doesn't have a great reputation among the straight razor crowd. There are plenty of highly talented custom razor makers, all of whom have a reputation to protect within our community. They wouldn't put out anything less than great quality. This guy, while I am sure he makes fantastic knives, doesn't have his reputation on the line here. Plus, what kind of scales is he going to put on?

While I would love to find a new custom straight maker for the community, I wouldn't want to do it with my money on what would seem such a high dollar project. Philadelph is getting into customs, and Butch is making quite a name for himself as well.

If you decide you wan't a different width of razor, give me the angle you want and the width you want, and I'll figure out the necessary spine width to fit your requirements for you.

EDIT: I just realized you wanted 27mm edge to spine.... so 2*[27*tan(8)] = 7.6 mm wide at the spine. I'd go ahead and make it 8 mm wide, which gives you an angle of 16.5 degrees.

So yeah, get your guy to use an 8mm wide spine.

If he uses a 6.5 mm spine width, that will give you a total angle of 13.5 degrees, which is too thin!

Remember that the #1 rule of design is that if it looks great but doesn't work at all, it isn't worth anything! Art for pure art's sake is nice in paintings, but when it comes to tools function must be top priority. If you can make something work wonderfully AND look great, then that's fantastic, but if it looks great but doesn't work, then it's trash.



By the way, when you get your razor made, if it is 27mm, then that's the same as 17/16". just a tad bigger than an 8/8 razor.

If you are still going to use this guy to make the razor, then I would google a bunch of pics of 8/8 razors, print them out, and show the guy what they look like, just so he can have at least a clue of what they should look like and their proportions.

I think some ducks are at 13*? I also remember that Russel Baldridge did a lot of experimentation with edge angle and found that, given good steel, pretty much everything within 12* to 22* shaved well.

Thanks Ben. - though my head is still spinning after (trying) to read all that. But I'll take your word for it, that those figures are correct. I did make a mockup of the blade with two-part putty to see the thickness in my hand and yeah, it really doesn't look all that strange even with an 8mm thick spine, it seems appropriate for the size of the blade...

I'll admit this guy isn't a dedicated razor maker, but he has a lot of experience making knives, and his heat treating and grinding skills are top notch I think, so with a little direction in terms of these figures and angles, I'm confident I'll have a beautiful and practical set of razors. I have already sent him a ton of big-blade razor images, so he does know what I'm looking for. I think it's just his personal preferences coming though, since he did say that if I want it 8mm thick then he'd do that no problem, he was just giving me his opinion. Which is why I just wanted to make sure that with an 8mm thick spine I wasn't screwing up the angles and making the razors useless, or at least not excellent in terms of shaving.

So is it safe to proceed with this info? Is a blade with a width of 27mm / 1.0629 inches from (the back of the spine - not the part that touches the hone) good to go with an 8mm / 0.3149 inches thick spine?

I've heard that there are a good number of angles that will work well for the cutting edge of a razor. So could say a 7mm or even a 6.5mm(1/4 inch) thick spine not do just as well??


Thanks once again to everyone for plodding through all this with me.

27 mm width
8 mm spine
17* edge angle

7 mm spine
14.9* edge angle

6.5 mm spine
13.8* edge angle

Here is one of dozens of triangle solvers on the net. You fix 3 of the sides and it will calculate the angles for you. (side a is the spine, side b = side c)
http://home.att.net/~srschmitt/scrip...triangles.html