Thread: O1 or D2? Which is best for Straight razors?

I'm going to try making a razor out of D2. It's got large carbides so I don't know how it perform, which is the reason why I want to make a razor out of it. If D2 works then N690 should as well.

I've made a razor out of AEB-L at 62-63 rc. It shaves as good as my Friodur, which is the best razor I've ever used. No surprise as this steel is especially designed for razors. Some say that commercial stainless steel razors are made out of AEB-L, some say 440C but AEB-L is more likely. You need cryo-quench to reach above 59 rc however.

O-1 is not brittle. 63 rc is typical for an O-1 razor, and has higher toughness than it does at 60 rc (look at Crucible's test data). TI's Silver Steel is 65 rc and nobody complains about brittleness, just that it can take a while to sharpen. Brittleness usually comes from improper tempering rather than from the steel being too hard.

The performance of a razor is also related to grain size. I've found some razors of the same steel and hardness shave noticeably better than others. If you harden the steel, do a partial spherodizing cycle at 1200F for 2 hours, then heat treat as usual, you get a finer grain size than heat treating from the fully annealed condition. Do a test heat treat first, break the steel and look at the grain with a microscope to determine what heat treat gives the finest grain.

I just finished my first razor using O-1 as far as hardness goes, you don't want to get full hardness out of it, so D2 would be too hard as well.
A fully hardened O-1 razor with a 2 hour temper at 400 degrees is still damn near impossible to hone I had to do a 3rd edge temper with my torch and take it into a dark straw color to get it to finally hone.
It shaves as well as my best razors now, but was the most difficult honing job I've had.

O-1 is an easy steel to get lucky with if you were to try to HT yourself, but like most HCS it does stain/rust easily.

If you're going with a professional HT, then I would factor in how much care do you want to put in to rust prevention afterwards.
O-1 is excellent, and feels buttery smooth when done right, but needs TLC after your shave.
most stainless blades I've tried feel a bit rougher, but can easily hold their own. AEB-L may be the way to go if you live where it's humid.

Mike, congrats on your razor. May I ask what hones you are using? I've tried O1 at 63-64 rc (cryo and 350F tempers) and it does take quite a while to sharpen, but shaves amazing. The sharpening seems reasonable with Shapton and DMT hones. It just takes longer than most razors, about the same as a modern TI razor.

Oh yeah AEB-L is different it is not as rough feeling as 440C. It has fewer and finer carbides, and sharpens about the same as O1 at the same hardness. You should try a razor in it if you haven't already. It's great stuff.

As an update, the D2 razor experiment worked, it shaved well though slightly rough feeling. Seemed to catch onto stuff easily. I did a grain refinement cycle at 1775F, hardened at 1875F, cryo-quench and tempered at 400F.

My next razor steel test is CPM-3V, I heard it is suitable for a chopper:

i made a 3v blade and was told it shaved well but it will be a bugger to hone i think
i dont remember how lonk it took to set the bevel on it
i am curelanty testing cpm154 for use on all SS razors i have orders for
so far its working well but needs more stroping then plain carbon (was 99% sure that was going to be the case anyhow)

On my O-1 razor I had to set the bevel with 400 & 600 grit sandpaper
followed by a 1k hone, norton 4/8k kitayama 12k, and then worked on diamond pastes down to .5 micron
it took me several hours of stropping on diamond pastes to get it right.
Everything I used seemed to take ten times longer to do anything.

Originally Posted by L R Harner

i made a 3v blade and was told it shaved well but it will be a bugger to hone i think
i dont remember how lonk it took to set the bevel on it
i am curelanty testing cpm154 for use on all SS razors i have orders for
so far its working well but needs more stroping then plain carbon (was 99% sure that was going to be the case anyhow)

Needs more stroping? So that means that the edge holding for CPM154 is worse than for carbon steel? That's a surprise.

Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff

On my O-1 razor I had to set the bevel with 400 & 600 grit sandpaper
followed by a 1k hone, norton 4/8k kitayama 12k, and then worked on diamond pastes down to .5 micron
it took me several hours of stropping on diamond pastes to get it right.
Everything I used seemed to take ten times longer to do anything.

Ohhh.... that's so 2-years-ago. DMT 325/600, Shapton 1k onward would be much faster

ment as needs more stropping to get started (shave prep )
im still working on the combo of hones and what not to get a killer edge on cpm154

Originally Posted by cotdt

Ohhh.... that's so 2-years-ago. DMT 325/600, Shapton 1k onward would be much faster

I've never had problems with my nortons, or my 1k doing the job...
even on diamond pastes, it took longer...
simply put I should have done a more agressive temper on the steel to get it to hone easier.
however since it's now set and shave ready, i expect it to stay there for a very long time...

well made myself a pasted strop and jsut a few passes got my cpm154 RC62-63 hardness razor crazy sharp and now i will not have to jsut plain strop much and can use it jsut like carbon razor

i have never used a pasted strop before so im super happy (was lookng for the next stone over my chosara 10k to finish SS with)

cotdt wrote:"Needs more stroping? So that means that the edge holding for CPM154 is worse than for carbon steel? That's a surprise."

That's not what it means at all. If anything, the edge holding is better. What it means is that because the steel is more abrasion resistant, it takes a bit more effort to smooth it out. Now, once you get it there, it will hold that fine edge longer (and won't be degraded by atmospheric conditions nearly so readily), but it will take a bit more effort to get it shaving comfortably. My solution to the problem (and I use CPM154CM exclusively for my stainless pieces, so a lot of trial and error has gone into my honing cycle) is a flatbed hone with rough leather, impregnated with 2 micron silcon carbide powder as an intermediate step between the Escher (or Thuringian hone, which is my preference) and the Chromium Oxide, followed by plain leather.