Thread: #3 goes down in a flame of glory.......

Brian, How many hours did you have in that blade? I really like the file work...

The blade was not tempered very well at all. You can see the grain in the metal at the brake. I have botched tempering jobs before, and that is the same result I got. If you had tempered it farther, it (1) wouldn't have broken, and (2) would have smaller grain-structure than that. But now you know what you did wrong, and maybe you won't do it again (if you are not like me, anyways...)

Originally Posted by woodwalker

The blade was not tempered very well at all. You can see the grain in the metal at the brake. I have botched tempering jobs before, and that is the same result I got. If you had tempered it farther, it (1) wouldn't have broken, and (2) would have smaller grain-structure than that. But now you know what you did wrong, and maybe you won't do it again (if you are not like me, anyways...)

Thanks for your input.
I sent a close up of the break to Mike Blue to take a look at (thanks again).
The grained seemed fine. It looks like the main reason for the break was a very small fracture at the bottom of one of the jimps. It just happen to drop an the right way and snap.

Originally Posted by MileMarker60

Thanks for your input.
I sent a close up of the break to Mike Blue to take a look at (thanks again).
The grained seemed fine. It looks like the main reason for the break was a very small fracture at the bottom of one of the jimps. It just happen to drop an the right way and snap.

Yup. We don't know what the actual hardness value of the blade is because that hasn't been tested yet. I'd really like to know what process of tempering will reduce grain structure, WW, if you don't mind...please explain.

Sorry for the wait... I am just going off of what my dad told me a while back when I had a similar problem. The grain structure looked exactly like that (though it breaking on a crack makes a lot of sense because it fractured cleaner than my mistake did). My dad, a Tool and Die maker with 30+years of experience, said that the grains expand when the steel is heat-treated, and contracts when it it tempered. Then again, this could be something he learned when he first started, then it was shown to be otherwise, and he didn't know it.

Well I am going to jump in here. I have done a boat load of reading and practice making knives. Now I have not made a straight razor but it should be the same. You have got to heat the metal until it is not magnetic anymore which is about 1450 degrees then it has to be cooled in water usually just the bottom half of the blade. Then the blade should be heated to 300 to 600 degrees for 2 hours and allowed to cool. If you only heated the metal to 400 degrees a few times you have not really hardened the blade. It is a process and I am really just learning. Do a search for heat treating 1080 steel you will find a lot of information.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Next time give it 425 for a couple hours or even 450. This becomes an experiment for finding the sweet spot for this particular batch of steel. If it's too soft after ward you can always heat treat it again.

+1 on Mikes comment. He has a clue on this topic.
Heat treating is as much art as science so find ways
to practice even on rejects.

I would consider welding the two parts together, grind the
weld clean and heat treat the part from scratch. You might
need to recondition condition the steel for the weld to take....

I do love the file work and style of your design -- with
the right heat treatment you will have lots
of fans (and customers if you want them).

Someday a brave sole will make a stainless+carbon
TIG welded frame back that has the carbon steel temper
and hardness that I like on the edge and a stainless back, spine
and tail that takes almost no care yet looks like an OLD time
frame back...

Yeah, but look at your #6...That's Phoenix rising out of the ashes . You will probably have many failures like this #3, and out of these ashes of the fallen will rise the next blade of beauty .

Thanks Robert,
I'm not to worried about braking/messing a razor up. It's going to happen at times. Just try and learn from the mistake and move on.

Real nice work Brian. That's my type of razor, I really love the "old-fashioned" spine work, it just gives it that classic looking touch.

It hurts me to the bone to see it broken though...!