Thread: Kagi-ba-Sword forging shop

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Bruno, of the Japanese smiths shops I've been to...the young men work kneeling or squatting on the floor. As they get older and their knees suffer the effects of carrying more birthdays...they move the floor downward.

I should have realized.
This is a typical Japanese thing to do.

I once read about a swordsman who lost his right hand.
Now, you can fight with a sword one handedly rather well if you are good, but the mechanics assume you'll be drawing with your right hand. With only a left hand left, this was not possible.

Rather than simply move his sword to his right side, he developed a complex technique for drawing and then cutting with his sword in the normal position using his left hand, and practiced long and hard until he was good. The Japanese answer (work harder) is often not the solution we would go for (work smarter).

That said, from a logistical pov (supplying charcoal, making the apprentices hammer the steel with heavy hammers, ...) I can see how lowering the floor is also the most practical solution.

I'm wrong in so many ways for saying this. But the American way of working smarter not harder, usually results in a poorer quality product, but ten times as many of it. JMHO. This is of course excluding those few individuals that consider themselves craftsmen, before businessmen. +1 to the sword forge in progress!!

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Bruno, of the Japanese smiths shops I've been to...the young men work kneeling or squatting on the floor. As they get older and their knees suffer the effects of carrying more birthdays...they move the floor downward. One of the most entertaining fellows put a solid floor on the bottom and had a nice little roll about stool in the pit. We had a huge laugh with him about that when we asked why not simply raise the equipment up to waist height and work from a solid floor.

The simple answer is that it is their tradition to do it this way.

Mike,

Mizuochi-san explained it much more logically.

If you have people of different heights working in your forge, they need the equipment at different heights....but it's really hard to adjust the height of an anvil. So they dig a pit in the floor, then have boards cut to fit that can be placed in the pit to adjust the height to fit. Easier than lifting an anvil, in the pre-hydraulic jack days.

Jim, your comment illuminates very well, the practical nature of the blacksmith shop regardless of cultural traditions. I have always enjoyed discovering the different ways the work gets done.

Bruno,

Surprisingly, I spent a lot of time on this question.

In this video-Mr Yoshihara sits as he works


In this video Mr. Sugita stands in a pit
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheJapan...29/w5WOmOZAo8M

It was Mr. Sugita's series of videos that led me to consider a pit.

My first couple of forges were raised so that I could stand on the ground. I had a little giant power hammer at the time so unless I wanted to dig a pit for it I need to be on ground level.

I have also had forges at ground level. And I like working that way as well. There is a kind of Zen serenity about it. But I like the mobility of standing. I am also building a Japanese type power hammer but I do not want to sit in front of a power hammer.

Plus, like Mike said, the knees can be a problem. I practice Iaido and currently have no knee problems but getting up an down is a pain.

I wanted to keep the feel of a traditional ground forge. In reality it matters little to the blade whether you use a traditional charcoal forge or a state of the art propane forge.

It boils down to a way of working. The charcoal forge takes much more work.
Making the charcoal as I do.
Cutting the charcoal to the appropriate size.
Fire maintenance while you work.

This all takes away from forging time.

A propane forge lights and heats quickly and away you go.

But for me the main purpose here is, to quote Jeep, exploring how the things we make-make us.

I like making charcoal-I like the smell and sound of the charcoal fire, I like the sound and the rhythm of using the fuigo.

Just like shaving with a straight razor it is as at times more about the process as about the the end result.

So, in the end it was practical/personal choice.

I hope it works

Originally Posted by Danocon

... But for me the main purpose here is, ..., exploring how the things we make-make us. ...

I understand that.

Originally Posted by Danocon

Surprisingly, I spent a lot of time on this question.

That, and of course making swords with which you can cleave a man in half.

These are both noble motivations

Good luck, Danocon. And looking forward to more pics!

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

I understand that.

I figured you would.

Originally Posted by Bruno

That, and of course making swords with which you can cleave a man in half.

These are both noble motivations

Bruno,

In a strange and round about way, this is one of the things that has attracted me to making razors.

All the the potential of the hard won knowledge, thousands of trial and error and technological refinements from the last 13 centuries or so that has resulted in a finely tuned tool whose main purpose as you say , is to cleave a man in half-cannot and should not be realized.

Sure we can appreciate the aesthetic beauty of it. And we can do some cutting tests, stress tests etc. But the ultimate tests-withstand battle conditions, handle well and deliver the killing cut is not something any of us want to see happen.

Now a razor can be tested for performance every day. The testing and feed back is what leads to improvements and more knowledge.

Plus, it can be very satisfying to create a tool that has a creative purpose (the perfect shave) as opposed to the perfect killing instrument.

I have long since given up trying to reconcile my love and fascination with swordsmanship and its related killing tools-I make no apologies for it.

But the thought of bringing a small amount of pleasure to someone before they go about their day has a lot of appeal.

Dan O'Connor