Thread: Kamisori Questions?

Q1) Can a kamisori razor be made from thinner steel than a double hollow grind because of its grind shape?

Ie be made from 3mm steel?

Q2) Does a kamisori razor have a full flat on one side or is it supposed to be slightly convex..? I have seen both?

Sorry to bother everyone. But I need wisdom.

Kamisori is convex on both sides, if you have seen a flat one , then it was made wrong.

As far as thicknesses it will depend on the size, you have to maintain that 14-20 * angle of the bevels.
To get an answer to those questions you need measurements of a few sizes of kamisori.

The same applies to kamisori as to razors: you can't make what you don't understand, and you cannot understand a tool -any tool- without learning to use it. Buy a couple of old kamisori on ebay so that you can measure them and get a feel for them. Get someone to hone one of them (or buy one that is shaveready) and learn to use it. Then you will be in a much better position to make one.

Hey guys thanks for you posts and reply. I am currently looking to buy some Razors Bruno so I will learn a bit from that. Don't worry. Have you made a few Razors Bruno?

In the mean time look at this.

Here we see what appears to be three different grinds on Kamisori style razors.

The first looks like a curve on top but it is flat.
The second is hollow on both grinds very slight on one side though (made buy Puma)
The third seems to be more in line with what traditional kamisori look like.




Interesting.

Originally Posted by Nicko

Hey guys thanks for you posts and reply. I am currently looking to buy some Razors Bruno so I will learn a bit from that. Don't worry. Have you made a few Razors Bruno?

In the mean time look at this.

Here we see what appears to be three different grinds on Kamisori style razors.

The first looks like a curve on top but it is flat.
The second is hollow on both grinds very slight on one side though (made buy Puma)
The third seems to be more in line with what traditional kamisori look like.




Interesting.

Kamisori may look flat but they are not, just like some heavy wedges look flat but are not, believe me I have seen many of them.
No kamisori is flat on either side.

The second pic razor you say was made by Puma, do you have any other pics? I am very sure that those are made in Japan by Japanese companies, if it was resales in puma scales, it does not make it Puma, only the tang stamp does.

Japanese Kamisori are "Deceptively" simple, you have pics of what look to be maybe one Japanese Kamisori there..

Like the guys already pointed out it is very confusing until you start taking razors apart, Honing, Stropping, and Shaving with them.. there is a special balance of use, that most who make razors miss completely...

Until that time is put in, you will just be making sharp steel and Razor like Objects, don't feel bad the road to making razors is littered with those that had the same idea...


(Please don't think I am being discouraging, I am saying do more research, and hands on study with old razors to understand that special balance)

No razor, kamisori, wedge, or 1/4 to full hollow could be honed if it was perfectly flat. All of them have a certain amount of convexity between cutting edge and spine honing flats. It would be impossible to achieve a bevel without tape or some device to build up the spine were it not so.

So in essence it's the ratio of blade depth to spine width that gives way to the razor being set in its bevel!

Ie a 3/4 razor blade width would equate to a 3/16 spine. Or in mm it would be 19mm blade with to just under 5mm spine. On a cutthroat.

Originally Posted by Nicko

So in essence it's the ratio of blade depth to spine width that gives way to the razor being set in its bevel!

Ie a 3/4 razor blade width would equate to a 3/16 spine. Or in mm it would be 19mm blade with to just under 5mm spine. On a cutthroat.

Not quite, the two sides of Kamisori are hollow but the radii are different. As stated above get one study and you will understand. You can't get an idea just by talking about it, western straight is simpler than kamisori in that regard.

The most important thing is to figure out why the Kamisori is made the way it is made, and that lies in the whole culture of how Japanese make their tools. The chisels, knives and plane blades are all hollow back, that allows for much smaller angle on the bevels and keener edge.

Again you will have to get real blades and try them, hone them , study them then make blades and learn by your mistakes.

Nicko
You have to understand that you must first learn to stand before you can run...think about an infant. Have you ever been around a toddler that keeps asking why & you get frustrated with the why & start answering "that's just the way it is"? I mean no disrespect, however you need to understand that you are asking questions that you simply cannot understand until you obtain a bit of experience.

Learn to shave, then you will understand a lot more about the tool. Learn to hone, you will learn a lot about different hardness's of the steels, geometry, the list goes on. You will learn how the grind & balance effects honing and shaving. Many/most of your questions will be answered by your learning the tool. Studying photo's isn't enough, you have to know what you need the tool to do before you can design it when it comes to razors...PERIOD.

Wanna learn from the ground up? I will gladly show you the way to the best of my ability all the way. Just like a house, you need a solid foundation before you build it.

Yes, I have made razors & razor looking objects that became cutting tools for my leather-working buddy...