Thread: Japanese white steel

Originally Posted by desol

AFAIK, Aogami Super is just as difficult to forge properly, if not more so. Shirogami is widely used in Knives, but it seems less so for razors...the reasoning, i'm not sure. I'm quite sure the steel is capable of beveling to that degree. My current Aogami knife is very thin(as are most japanese knives), but it's essentially Shirogami...with a few more alloy's for corrosion resitance and toughness. I have seen some Yasuki type razors on ebay.

But yes, to answer the poster's question...Shirogami can and is forged Honyaki...but it's expensive and takes alot of skill. Alot of maker's prefer Kasumi knives(clad) for a number of reasons.

White steel is not available outside of Japan, that is why most razors are not made from it. Most kamisori are made from white steel though.
Kamisori are not made honyaki AFAIK, Iwasaki western straights from tamahagane are deferentially heat treated.

Originally Posted by mainaman

White steel is not available outside of Japan

I beg to differ

Stähle | DICTUM GmbH - Mehr als Werkzeug

That's right. That's what I was thinking. That's a great company by the way....I always sit and drool over their catalogue.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

I always sit and drool over their catalogue.

Likewise! They have some awesome stuff.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I beg to differ

Stähle | DICTUM GmbH - Mehr als Werkzeug

That is new to me, I was always told by knife makers that one can't just go to Hitachi and buy from them like one can go to Uddeholm or Crucible and buy from them direct.

That might be true. But "Mehr als werkzeuge" as they are called nowadays have Blue, white, VG-10 (in laminates) and SG2 (in laminates) steel available. All materials that can't "normally" be obtained by the common man.

And they're not priced beyond belief either

Dedox,

I'm intrigued. What's on your mind? Are you a bladesmith? What kind of knife are you thinking about?

These folks have always had paper steels for sale: Heinnie Haynes - Knives, Pocket Tools and Accessories

Originally Posted by mainaman

That is new to me, I was always told by knife makers that one can't just go to Hitachi and buy from them like one can go to Uddeholm or Crucible and buy from them direct.

This is sort of true Mainaman, but not impossible. Obviously companies with deeper pockets have no trouble and it's worth it to offer it for sale where they can bury the costs in the volume of sales. I asked once about ordering some after managing to find my way through the maze of salespeople who were seemingly baffled that an individual would try to order steel. If I was willing to order a metric tonne, it would be no problem at all. The shipping would take three months wait and cost twice the price of the steel itself. I'll wait til I win the lottery.

Desol: these steels forge like butter, especially the whites. After all, they are nothing but carbon and iron. Tamahagane is even higher in carbon and has none of the additives the metallurgists just have to use to contaminate the material. I will stipulate that the high alloy material like Blue No. 1 Super Steel is sensitive to temperature control, but not any particular barrier to working the material for a smith with experience. Don't make these out to be magical materials.

As to thin. Hitachi has some rolling mills that make their ability to produce thin sheets a no-brainer. A smith trying to forge thin materials like that by hand would have to be very dedicated, hedging in the direction of foolish. Frankly, they probably would start with a thin sheet and not bother forging the steel down from a big lump unless they wanted to be able to claim they did once. From a practical perspective, it's a huge waste of time and fuel when Hitachi has already done it for you.

Since you know Japanese knives well, the whole point is the thin, artistic slices such blades produce. It's all about the presentation, Neh?

im a bladesmith/stock removelist and i was thinking about a general purpose knife made from hatachi white steel that i got from Murray Carter who is also a knifemaker

Then you have all you need to find out how it will go. The steel will tell you as you work it. Good luck.