Thread: Are some razors just better than others?

JimmyHAD, yesterday 11:21 AM
"One barber in particular would take his thumb and flick the point to make a ringing noise. He told me that if the razor didn't "ring" it was not as good as one that did. I'm not saying that is a fact rather just mentioning what he said."

Same basic idea as the 'singing sword' from tales of the old knights. The best sword would sing when you flicked it.

Now a razor that does not sing will cut whiskers. But you will get peak performance with an ultra thin edge, only a few molecules thick. Your barber's thumb test indicates that you have the 'fin' (can't think of a better word for it).

If the edge is not ultra thin when you first get the razor, you have to think through the geometry to get it there. But once you get there, you can maintain the edge for quite a while.

And you will know you can do it; that's worth something, eh?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

If Mike Blue happens along in this thread he can really speak to the nuances of metallurgy and heat treating. Other members as well but I know Mike is expert in that area.

Yup. I'm no metallurgy expert, but I know way too much on the subject. Spent too much time at swordforum.com... Great smiths hang out there and share their knowledge.

For those who are interested, heat treatment heats the blade so a very high degree, making the molecules of the steel into a certain pattern. This pattern gives the steel its rigidity and allows it to hold an edge. Now, if the metal worker then just let the steel cool down slowly, the molecules would go back to their original configuration and nothing special occurs. However, when the metal worker rapidly cools the hot steel, the molecules are "flash frozen" in their special configuration, making the steel hardened. Think water and ice. I believe the steel is given a crystaline formation when heat treated.

Tempering is the process of heating the hardened metal to a certain degree for a certain amount of time, reducing some of the brittleness of hardened steel. Too much tempering and I believe you get unhardened steel. Not sure on that, but you can mess up the steel by tempering it wrong.

Originally Posted by John G

JimmyHAD, yesterday 11:21 AM
"One barber in particular would take his thumb and flick the point to make a ringing noise. He told me that if the razor didn't "ring" it was not as good as one that did. I'm not saying that is a fact rather just mentioning what he said."

Same basic idea as the 'singing sword' from tales of the old knights. The best sword would sing when you flicked it.

Now a razor that does not sing will cut whiskers. But you will get peak performance with an ultra thin edge, only a few molecules thick. Your barber's thumb test indicates that you have the 'fin' (can't think of a better word for it).

If the edge is not ultra thin when you first get the razor, you have to think through the geometry to get it there. But once you get there, you can maintain the edge for quite a while.

And you will know you can do it; that's worth something, eh?

Welcome to SRP John. Your use of the word "fin" to describe it was the subject of a great debate awhile back. I don't want to start it over again, just mentioning it as it came to mind. Take a look at the SRP Wiki for all kinds of interesting stuff . They are building a razor database right now and contributions ( photos not money ) are appreciated.

Steel, Schmeel. For all practical purposes we're talking about what most of us have and most guys have vintage or new factory made razors. Just consider that most of our vintage razors were made in an environment where most companies only did minimal fabrication. Most bought the blanks from a supplier and most bought the scales from a scale supplier and many probably didn't even do the heat treatment. It was a rare company that did it all. So based on that you can conclude that the steel is pretty comparable from brand to brand and no different for the English makers or U.S makers. maybe the really old stuff from the mid 1800s or earlier were complete manufacturers out of necessity.

So if you want to know why one is better than the other I'm afraid the raw material is not the place to look. Of course modern custom's are a different story with choices in steels.

Originally Posted by Leighton

I fail to understand what would make one steel better than another. Sure, there are junk grades of steel that would be unsuitable for razor making, but of the ones that are suitable, I fail to see an appreciable difference. I don't understand.

Certainly most razors are made with 'good' steel. My point was that a good heat treatment makes all the difference.

Thebigspendur.. I have to disagree I think soligen steel dffiers from let's say Swedish or Chinese, or Sheffield. I don't have proof just imho.

JimmyHad "They especially liked Dubl Ducks and FWE but said that any Solingen razor would be of good quality. One barber in particular would take his thumb and flick the point to make a ringing noise. He told me that if the razor didn't "ring" it was not as good as one that did. I'm not saying that is a fact rather just mentioning what he said." It must be a jersey thing, but I agree totally with this assesment.. I love german steel.. it's made like no other.

Cheers
D

Ask Butch how he manages to get different hardness from the same steel by giving it varying heat treatment. And then how different steels behave after similar treatment. The combinations are many, and there are always trade offs made.