Thread: Environmentalist shout-out

Originally Posted by ATG

I feel like playing devil's advocate here so I will, forgive me.

What about people who own hundreds of straights and the fuel and packaging used in the shipping process for all those razors? The mining and manufacturing of the blades can't be that good for the environment either. Also I use way more hot water and water in general when I shave with a straight compared to when I used a cartridge razor. All the various ADs seem to get in the way of the environmental thing as it's essentially an excess beyond what you actually "need" and the production process is not exactly the best for the environment. I'm guilty of it too as I always seem to buy shaving crap now which I don't exactly need.

Now I'm not saying straight shaving is "bad" for the environment, and when I think of all the plastic disposables and aerosol cans being thrown away from cartridge razor users, straight shaving is probably better, but I don't think straight shaving is some miracle that is 100% better than using a cartridge.

I guess if you're really a die hard environmental freak you just wouldn't shave at all and let yourself be "natural". For the rest of us though straight shaving is the next best thing, just don't kid yourself, it has its drawbacks too.

You do have a good point here. I suppose it would depend on what type of razors an avid user would collect. New production razors would have a "carbon footprint" or whatever other confusing and wacky term that's used right now.

Collecting and using vintage razors? A great example of recycling. Recycling a product that lasted someone a lifetime to last another lifetime or two or three.

Chris L

Sure, straights generate less waste than disposable razors. The only waste is soapy water... and where I come from it was used for mixing pigs' food. Yuck!... Straight shaving is green, they say. It's not! There is waste, even if it is minimal...
The only GREEN option is to grow a beard!!!

So now, I am being earth friendly instead of cheap. I can dig it, I have mentioned use of DE's and straights at a local Sci Fi convention. They had an eco geek program track. Next year I hope they will have a presentation on straight or DE shaving along with other "green friendly" personal hygine methods.

I'm sure more "enviros" would do more along the lines of composting toilets and the like if they could get someone to do it for them. As we have found here, not all share the same level of DIY abilities and inclinations, so perhaps for most it is just too hard. Further, even if someone did, there is the pesky matter of building code, and going to a greywater system would be more than a minor renovation me thinks.
I switched to save waste, not necessarily to preserve the environment, I hate buying garbage. besides, if I can fix it, I own it, if not, it's a rental.

Can I get carbon credits for using a straight?

Originally Posted by ATG

I feel like playing devil's advocate here so I will, forgive me.

What about people who own hundreds of straights and the fuel and packaging used in the shipping process for all those razors? The mining and manufacturing of the blades can't be that good for the environment either. Also I use way more hot water and water in general when I shave with a straight compared to when I used a cartridge razor. All the various ADs seem to get in the way of the environmental thing as it's essentially an excess beyond what you actually "need" and the production process is not exactly the best for the environment. I'm guilty of it too as I always seem to buy shaving crap now which I don't exactly need.

Now I'm not saying straight shaving is "bad" for the environment, and when I think of all the plastic disposables and aerosol cans being thrown away from cartridge razor users, straight shaving is probably better, but I don't think straight shaving is some miracle that is 100% better than using a cartridge.

I guess if you're really a die hard environmental freak you just wouldn't shave at all and let yourself be "natural". For the rest of us though straight shaving is the next best thing, just don't kid yourself, it has its drawbacks too.

The vast majority of people who own hundreds of straights have saved them from the garbage and given them new life- Reduce and Reuse are of equal importance with Recycling.

Even with the manufacturing costs, as compared to a Mach 3 or similar razor, the straight will win out every time in the long run. You need a certain amount of steel, a certain amount of heat and energy to shape, and the materials used for the scales. This blade will, even with daily use, last for decades if not centuries. I've had a M3 handle for a few years, but I keep having to buy blades. Those blades also have to be shipped, and there is a great deal of packaging involved, as well as the blade which will eventually be discarded. These manufacturing, packaging, and shipping costs all reoccur regularly throughout the use of the handle.

As far as the rest of it... It goes towards need, like you said. I also tend to use more water when shaving with a straight. I think that the low environmental cost of the razor and the homemade soap I use more than balances that out. I don't think anyone is saying the environmental cost is zero, just that it's much better than the alternatives.
J.

I live in Ithaca, which I believe is the new Berkeley, where people do use composting toilets and what not, and when Cornell wanted to cut down an area of trees about 40yds by 20yds, literally 150+ people went to live in them and had to be arrested on account of trespassing... and yet only two of my friends are interested in straight ballin', and everyone I talk to thinks its crazy:
(starting from the point where I say its good for the environment)
"Plus its good for the environment"
"Yeah but what if you cut your throat?"
"You don't. The angle is different."
"Well they invented cartridges for a reason."
"Yeah but think about all that steel you're chucking out, not to mention packaging and what not."
"Yes but I recycle the paper and plastic."
"Fine."
"Fine." (with a haughty shrug of liberal superiority- the same one I get when they've decided they've won a prius argument with me.)

edit:
Prius argument... either Pop Mechanics or Pop Science looked into it, and a Prius is worse than a conventional car fo rthe environment because it is made of plastics and aluminum, both of which are oil intensive (plastic is made of oil, aluminum takes a lot of heat to purify the ore), and the heavy metals in their batteries can't be recycled, is rarer than steel, and will only last about 100,000 miles. A well made conventional car will go 300,000 (and be ****ty yes, but... my friends volvo is at 320,000) and gets 24 mpg, compared to my other friends prius at 31 mpg...

I would definitely include reduced waste as a significant part of why I use a straight. I wouldn't say a huge part, but significant.


As far as environmentalists practicing what they preach, I've got a couple of thoughts on that.

First of all, you've really got two types of people who are referred to as "environmentalists."

A. People who care about the environment, and do what they can to reduce their negative impact on it, while encouraging others to do the same. These are the folks who have helped to provide us with the cleanest air and water, and lowest global temperatures in 100 years. These guys generally do practice what they preach.

or

B. Idiot cause-junkies who get wrapped up in a small number of "environmental causes" and focus all time and energy on those particular issues, even if their solutions do 10000x the damage as the problems they are trying to fix. These are the guys who give environmentalists a bad name, because in addition to being useless, they also tend to be very loud.


(well, sort of off topic anyway) Reducing your impact on the environment can be a really tricky proposition, and I'll give two really great examples that came up in past discussion here.

1. Somebody wanted to track down "greener" soap. An admirable goal. But what happens if you live on the east coast, and the "greener" soap you find is on the west coast? Is the reduction in synthetic chemicals in your soap better for the environment than the carbon pollution created by shipping it to you?

2. "Vegan friendly" strop material. Sounds great, right? You get a nice looking and effective strop, and no defenseless cattle had to die for it. But, that strop material is going to be made with a variety of man made chemicals, as well as petroleum products most likely. So you bought it to protect one animal, but how many did you harm with all the chemical processing that it took to make the material for it in the first place?



I guess I'm getting a bit OT here, but it's an interesting topic. At least I think we can all agree that shaving with a vintage straight is WAY more environmentally sound than disposables.

Originally Posted by khaos

Prius argument... either Pop Mechanics or Pop Science looked into it......

I'm not 100% sure if I'm thinking of the same article, but the one I saw compared the Prius to the Hummer H1, and even compared to the H1, the estimated that over the total life of the vehicle, the prius did a lot more harm to the environment per mile.

Originally Posted by khaos

I live in Ithaca, which I believe is the new Berkeley, where people do use composting toilets and what not, and when Cornell wanted to cut down an area of trees about 40yds by 20yds, literally 150+ people went to live in them and had to be arrested on account of trespassing... and yet only two of my friends are interested in straight ballin', and everyone I talk to thinks its crazy:
(starting from the point where I say its good for the environment)
"Plus its good for the environment"
"Yeah but what if you cut your throat?"
"You don't. The angle is different."
"Well they invented cartridges for a reason."
"Yeah but think about all that steel you're chucking out, not to mention packaging and what not."
"Yes but I recycle the paper and plastic."
"Fine."
"Fine." (with a haughty shrug of liberal superiority- the same one I get when they've decided they've won a prius argument with me.)

edit:
Prius argument... either Pop Mechanics or Pop Science looked into it, and a Prius is worse than a conventional car fo rthe environment because it is made of plastics and aluminum, both of which are oil intensive (plastic is made of oil, aluminum takes a lot of heat to purify the ore), and the heavy metals in their batteries can't be recycled, is rarer than steel, and will only last about 100,000 miles. A well made conventional car will go 300,000 (and be ****ty yes, but... my friends volvo is at 320,000) and gets 24 mpg, compared to my other friends prius at 31 mpg...

You can always come back at their recycling argument with the facts on recycling costs, the energy used to ship, process, and reship the recycling as well as the fuel to go to the store to buy new blades. Even if your pals ride a bike tehy are still wasting food energy to make the trip -food which also has to be shipped.
the alternative really is to wear a beard and trim it with scissors if they really think they'll kill themselves.