Thread: Damascus vs. whatever else

After looking at the straights that Lynn has posted on Straight Razor Design, I am wondering about the advantages of damascus vs. stainless, carbon or whatever.

I have a good damascus steel blade knife by Chris Reeve, so I am aware that it holds an edge better than stainless. Obviously, it is a thing of beauty. On the down side, I'd need to mortgage the wife and dog to buy a damascus razor. What else can anyone tell me about the pluses and minuses?

I think that, other than aestetic reason, Damascus in razors is doing not much than looks good. Damascus steel was first invented to improve two weak spots on battle swords: Combine good holding edge, and improve elasticity. If the sword was with nice (hard) edge, it ususaly was too brittle, and if it was elastic, it wont hold cutting edge. So, Damascus was invented to make a steel with characteristics from both worlds, by combinig the softer, but more elastic, and harder, but brittle steel in one. These swords was superior to all other steels. The hamon, traditional Japanese sword also uses this layering technique, in fact, in the Japanese swords there are as many as 30000 layers of steel. In first Damascus (the name indicate the origin of this steel) blades, the pattern appeared naturaly, today is made with acid etching.

BUT, since i dont have one of this babies myself, i cannot tell you how nice they shave, so i'll have to take Lynn's word for it, they appear to be awesom shavers

There is so much talk about different steels in the knife community, but I don't seem to see it as much over here. Has anyone discussed the advantages or disadvantages of hard powdered tool steels for straights? Are there any makers who use the excellent Hitachi carbon steels for razors? Where might one find iformation about this? Is someting like Cowry-X just to damn hard to hone or strop?

Curious

Originally Posted by Korndog

There is so much talk about different steels in the knife community, but I don't seem to see it as much over here.
Curious

Hey Kd,
There are several reasons that different steels aren't talked about much.
Many of the razors that we buy, sell, & trade are vintage. The older razors are pretty much carbon steel; maybe a few in SS. They do have some different bits of this 'n that, proprietary stuff of making the steel. You can talk about the different honing or edge-holding properties of some of the major brands, but you're still talking mostly about carbon steel. Different manufacturers certainly had some steels that varied from one another, but we don't have the kind of data on those steels like we do with the modern steels of the cutlery industry.
Also, there are few modern razor manufacturers. Those that do sell razors typically vary their designs based on blade style & width, blade treatments like etching, and scale material & style. Then you have choices like carbon steel, SS, or (in a very few cases) Damascus.

Originally Posted by Korndog

Has anyone discussed the advantages or disadvantages of hard powdered tool steels for straights? Are there any makers who use the excellent Hitachi carbon steels for razors? Where might one find iformation about this? Is someting like Cowry-X just to damn hard to hone or strop?

This would be great discussion for straight razor anatomy theory. I dream of really cool, high-tech steels in a str8. But the reality is that no manufacturer is making razors with these steels. I suppose you could go custom, but then you're talking big $$$.
It is nice to dream big, though.
Happy shaving.
Parry

I have a good damascus steel blade knife by Chris Reeve

Do you have an original Chris Reeve, or a Reeve design by a major manufacturer? If it's original, I am envious. He is an outstanding maker.

newdovo and superfly... You provided some very accurate and useful information.
One clarification. The pattern in today's damascus is not made by the acid etch, it is merely highlighted. The pattern is already there. The acid eats the softer of the steels at a faster rate. A 30 second bath is usually enough to bring out the pattern to the fullest.

Damascus for straights: Depends whether it's carbon/carbon damascus, carbon/stainless damascus, or stainless/stainless damascus. For the most part, though, the biggest benny for a straight razor is in the appearance. Providing it is a nice pattern for the size of the blade.

By the end of the year, I will have a few custom straights to choose from. Most will be under the $300 mark.

I think that when you buy something whether your talking razors or anything else you make a decision as to what is important to you personally. You can buy an eboy special for $40 that will give you the best shaves you will ever experience so why do we spend over $300 for a wonderedge or almost $1000 for a damascus. Will either really shave better than that $40 razor. Maybe its because we think that expensive razor has some magical qualitiy or its important to us to own what we perceive as the best.

Having said that, I have a TI damascus and I really don't think there is anything that special about it. Out of the box it didn't shave period. I've spent so much time honing it I could have honed ten eboy specials to perfection and I still have other razors that shave better. Mind you not that it doesn't shave well, it certainly does and it retains its edge a very long time. And thats carbon steel. I'm afraid to think what it would take to hone a stainless damascus. Yea its nice to own a damascus and it does give a very comfortable shave, almost like a wedge.

So back to the question of are these super premium razors worth the money. Again, its a matter of perspective. Its like one guy wearing a $300 Seiko watch and another wearing a four grand Rolex. They both tell the time and are about as accurate as each other.Whats important to you?

Originally Posted by newdovo

This would be great discussion for straight razor anatomy theory. I dream of really cool, high-tech steels in a str8. But the reality is that no manufacturer is making razors with these steels. I suppose you could go custom, but then you're talking big $$$.
It is nice to dream big, though. Parry

Excellent reply Parry. Thanks for the info. I tend to get a little carried away with my wishful thinking. I don't suppose we are going to see bunches of straight razor makers come on the scene any time soon; but one can always hope. One thing I can't believe as I immerse myself into this hobby (somebody stop me!) is that there are no Japanese sr makers to speak of. They have such an amazing history of forging steel into blades, that I would think some excellent pieces should be coming out of Seki. I just exchanged emails with TonyMiller on this.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by newdovo

I dream of really cool, high-tech steels in a str8. But the reality is that no manufacturer is making razors with these steels.

I can't help but think the "old ways are the best ways". What could be better than the simple carbon steel razor. It responds well to the stone, the strop and the beard. "If it ain't broke", right? "A fool could use it"! I mean, "life is like a box of chocolates".

X

When I was thinking about laying out the bucks for the best shave possible, I asked Ray at Classicshaving.com if the damascus razors would give any better shave than a carbon steel. He said that they would not. He did think that carbon steel would overall give better results than stainless due to it being easier to hone a great edge on it.
Bob

Originally Posted by Korndog

There is so much talk about different steels in the knife community, but I don't seem to see it as much over here. Has anyone discussed the advantages or disadvantages of hard powdered tool steels for straights? Are there any makers who use the excellent Hitachi carbon steels for razors? Where might one find iformation about this? Is someting like Cowry-X just to damn hard to hone or strop?

Curious

One consideration in comparing interest in specialty steels between the two groups is the common fact that knives perform many tasks ..... razors, only one .... er, two if you count the single-bevel ones used to make microscopic slides for biology viewing.