Thread: Twilight Zone Shave

I had an interesting curiousity happen to me today. I grabbed a strop that I put red paste (on the back rough side) when I was a ultra noobie. I stropped my hollow ground razor 20 times on this side, and 30 times on the smooth side.

I got the best shave ever. Normally it takes me about 20 min. to shave. This morning maybe 8-10. I know using red-paste on a hollow ground is supposed to be a no-no... I am still in disbelief how smooth it came out...

I thought that red paste would actually mess the edge up. Do any of you all have any thoughts on the subject?

Mark.

Yes, one I think you may have a smoother edge than before. A super sharp edge is a bear to shave with. Also, what do you mean by red paste? Is this the 3 micron from classic shaving? Or some other grit? You may have sharpened up the blade more, but what I think you did was add "cutting teeth" to the blade and smoothed out the edge. You'll notice it shaves well, and easily but not exactly super close, but it doesn't really matter because its so fast and easy. I've experienced this before and if its what my experience was you'll have a hard time convincing anyone else your not nuts. But the shave just rocks huh? I think straights were originally designed to work like this.

P.S. I just tried it with the classicshaving red paste and the shave was really fast and smooth...keep us in the loop!

AF Davis11:

Yes it was classic shaving 3 micron paste. I am still amazed, it is almost 11pm my time. I have about the same amount of stuble that I had at 5:00pm using a gillette. I am wondering how is this possible?

Does the red paste ruin the edge with repeated use, eventually dulling it? If not why are you not suppose to use it with a hollow ground razor?

Mark.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Yes, one I think you may have a smoother edge than before. A super sharp edge is a bear to shave with. Also, what do you mean by red paste? Is this the 3 micron from classic shaving? Or some other grit? You may have sharpened up the blade more, but what I think you did was add "cutting teeth" to the blade and smoothed out the edge. You'll notice it shaves well, and easily but not exactly super close, but it doesn't really matter because its so fast and easy. I've experienced this before and if its what my experience was you'll have a hard time convincing anyone else your not nuts. But the shave just rocks huh? I think straights were originally designed to work like this.

P.S. I just tried it with the classicshaving red paste and the shave was really fast and smooth...keep us in the loop!

I suspect what you've done is start creating a new edge, some of the old one might still be helping a little since you didn't overdo it.

I don't know anything about not using double hollows with such pastes, but that could be because they seem quite coarse. You might not want to make it too regular a habit. Then again, what do I know?

I remember reading a thread about how rounding the edge the way one does when using grit pastes on a hanging strop might make for a more comfortable shave. I just see it as increasingly problematic as the edge continues to round. Again

Maybe, try lying it out on a towel over a flat surface. Lay down a towel or some piece of cloth to protect the finishing leather side. That might minimise over rounding.

X

I can't shave against the grain because of too much irritation so my shaves are close but not as close as I could get. So what you describe would be close enough for me. What I am looking for is ultimate smoothness.

Just when I thought I was done getting honing supplies you hit me with the need for 3 micron paste .

I was thinking of trying something like that a few weeks ago but with a 4k Norton to create the serated edge on a shave ready razor using just a lap or two and then go to the 1 and/or .5 micron paste to smooth, and effectively sharpen the individual serations. Skipping the 8k & 12k. I thought that this might make for a smoother shave.

Now I got to try it.

There is little reason not to use the 3 micron paste. Just understand now that your done. No more messing with it. Just update it on .5 paste occasionally. Do not keep applying the paste again and again or you will start to erode the edge. But it would be like a 8K Norton.

Vlad- This is a very hard edge to replicate. Let me know how it goes. I find the 4K doesn't do it (too rough to shave with), but your plan of adding the extra stuff might work. I find that a hone in the 6-8K class pulls this off. What I think is that you have to have an already established bevel, then ADD the cutting teeth with the higher grit. My next plan is to try backhoning on the 8K and see what that does (I can't imagine it'll work, but what do I care, I'm a scientist here). I know it sounds nuts but my experiments indicate that the backhoning action of a pasted strop is key to this sensational edge. I'm of the belief that the edge is very sharp and then teeth are added with a low grit, any overhoning is wiped away and the thin underlying bevel holds the teeth in place but stays out of the way. I think with the pyramid this starts to justify why we use 3/5 passes on 8K instead of like 20. You'd hone it too "sharp" and remove the cutting teeth. Let me know what you discover. I find that the 3 micron paste over an already honed edge worked well (the technique used here works, I test shaved two razors using his approach on 3 micron paste) The way I have done this in the past on my own was to backhone over a sharp edge with a medium grit barber hone, such as a carborundum with a little pressure applied. But even honing over the same hone came close to replicating the edge.

This gentlemen is what I mean by shaving with a smoother edge.

Mslovachek- It really does rock doesn't it? I find that an edge like this cuts off whiskers without any sensation that its really tearing into the skin. If nothing else the sudden ability to shave in just a couple of minutes is pretty cool huh? And it just sort of slides down the face effortlessly. I didn't even allow the cream to soak, just applied dry and shaved.

That's what I was thinking of doing by taking a shave ready - already honed up to .5 micron and adding serations with 4k and then going right away to 1 or even .5 micron. I'll try the 4k, have nothing to loose.

The finer paste cannot polish out the rougher serations and will instead smooth them over.

If the 4k does not work then I will re-hone to .5 and try adding serations on 8k followed by .5 paste. This was an idea that I thought would work but forgot about. Now that I saw your posts I am eager to see if it will work. I want that smooth shave.

AFD,

I read your other post in regards to adding striations to the edge of the blade. Just wnated you to know that I reproduced the "Twilight Zone Effect," on another razor.

The procedure that I took was:hone the razor, then 30 laps on .5micron paste, then 30 laps on .25 micron paste. After which, I went back and gave the razor 3 laps on the red pasted strop, then completed a normal stropping.

The second razor ended up giving the same type of shave as the one earlier posted.
I thought you would find it interesting...
Mark.

Yes thanx. Smooth huh? I'm still playing around with the idea and working on ways to validate whether striations are cutting, assisting, or whether the razor is just smooth. I've been able to produce one edge which was dull yet shaved nicely, but not all that close. I still think the balance between the two aspects is important though, so its all just playing around now. I produced one edge and took it all the way up to .25 micron paste, but damn it pulled a little, like I was just trying to break the hair shaft with the edge of the blade. Since I won't accept even the slightest pulling in my razors I've been working at adding striations ever since. I absolutely demand a razor that cuts through a heavy beard without the slightest pulling. I'm still working on methods of backing off the edge a little without damaging it. Once the bevel is thinned its hard to get it flared out again. Atleast I can tell when the striations are in place as its starts a wicked pull on the strop.

It would make a lot of sense to me to add the striations last and ensure they are in place after you create a sharpend edge rather than put the striations in place and then honing them down as you try to produce a sharp edge. It could be just that simple.