New Member Hello, scraping away 25 yrs and need help

[eagle]

Hello to all you SRPers. I just joined SRP today, and you don't know how happy I am that I found this place (keep reading).
First, my introduction with a relevant bio, then some questions.

My name is Mike, going by the username of "eagle" here at SRP.
I'm 45, and I have been shaving with a straight razor for about 25 years. I have always been interested in the old ways of doing things (18th century woodworking tools, fountain pens, muzzleloaders, etc.) and as a young boy scout growing up in a rural area I had plenty of experience sharpening and using knives. I obtained my late grandfather's straight razor during my college years and began trying to shave with it. I used conventional shaving cream and the first couple of times I tried the razor I only got part way through before losing my nerve. However, I really liked the elegant simplicity, self reliance, historical, and environmentally friendly aspects of using a SR, so I kept trying off and on. I didn't know anyone else at the time who used a straight razor, so experience has been my teacher and more recently, whatever web info I found. I eventually cultivated the skills to get a complete, satisfying, close shave. I love using a SR -- better shaves than using anything else. I also love people's reactions when I tell them what I use to shave with. Now, I wanted to preserve my Grandfather's razor for future generations, so shortly after I began using that razor, I bought one from Hoffritz. It has Spain stamped on the tang so I guess the quality is not too bad. I also picked up what I thought I needed to maintain both my razors from a Chesapeake Knife and Tool store. The store clerk said I should use a surgical black arkansas stone with honing oil, and I also got an Illinois strop. The new razor shaved like a dream, but of course after time I needed to hone it. I honed my razors according to the instruction I got from the store clerk. I oiled up the stone, laid the razor diagonally on the stone so as to have the whole edge on it, then put my fingers on the side of the blade in the hollow grind but near the edge (using all four fingers on the blade). I was told to use some pressure on the razor when going forward (edge first) then very light on the return. He instructed me to use that up and back stroke 70 times on one side, then flip the razor over and do the same on the other side. Return to the first side and do 60 strokes, flip and do 60 more... The progression was to decrease the count by 10 each time until I reached 20 then drop to 15, then 10, then decrease by one until I was done. I would clean the oil off and strop. This is how I have honed my razors for most of all those years. Following this procedure I was able to maintain what I call an adequate edge for shaving -- nothing like that silky feeling of the razor when it was new, but at least not irritating either. Although, totally by accident one day, I did achieve that kind of an edge on one of the razors once. Couldn't duplicate it, but it was really a pleasure while it lasted. Over the years I've tried varying the strokes, using just the weight of the razor (no fingers on it). Nothing was any better, and I would return to how I always did it. Then I got a King 8000 water stone. I thought I'd finally get that silky dream shave now. I experimented, using the
water stone after the arkansas black. It put a wonderful mirror finish on the razor, but it was significantly duller -- to the point where I couldn't shave with it. I tried varying everything I could think of to no avail. Lately, I picked up an ultrafine white ceramic stone and have used that lightly after honing with some success. I use it dry for a few strokes with pressure and lightly. But I've never been able to get a nice edge; just good enough to shave with and not cut myself (still better than the disposables). A while back I found the classicshaving web site, so I knew I could have Lynn hone my razors (if I haven't destroyed them with my neanderthal honing methods). And that would be great for a while, but I really want to be able to do it myself and achieve a really comfortable edge. Now I have found SRP, and have hope that I can get the instruction I need. I've had my eye on a Dovo with tortoise scales for some years now, but I won't let myself get one til I can properly maintain it. From what I have been reading I fear I have probably ruined the geometry of my razors. But once the tax return comes back I may get a Norton 4000/8000. I see that is very popular hone.

One thing I can attest to from my experience is that letting the blade rest a couple days (or letting the fin grow or whatever you want to call it) makes a noticable difference. Also, you might be interested to know that I stupidly dropped my Hoffritz razor once and put a half moon chip right smack in the middle of the edge. It's a little more than 1mm deep too. But I still shave with it with no adverse consequences! I do have a beard so that makes it a little easier . I shave the top of my cheeks and most of my neck; although, there have been periods of time over the years where I have been clean shaven and used a SR then too. It just became too much work honing as I do and the razors needed it more often. But if I can finally learn how to properly hone up a nice edge, I might just keep the beard off.

One last note. I examined a Norton 4000/8000 at a local woodworking store. It seems much coarser than the surgical black I've been using??
My 8000 King is like glass compared to the Norton!?

I have no problems completely shaving with a SR and I love it, but I sure could use some honing instruction!!! I recently saw Brian Donofrio's videos, Lynn's too, and I plan on getting the DVD by that other guy that Lynn mentioned in his video.

Well, I think I've said enough for now. So what advice do you guys have for me?? Where do I start?

[thebigspendur]

Well, let me be the first to welcome you to the site.

Its hard to believe you've been shaving 25 years with that kind of edge maintainance. My first recommendation is to read all the help files here. After that you might want to modify your stropping techniques depending on what they are. I would probably send the blades out to one of the honemeisters here for sharpening so you'll know what a really sharp blade is like. I would definately get the Norton and start practicing with that.

Having shaved so long using bad techniques is probably a bad deal because now you might have to relearn things that have become second nature to you.

We could probably write pages of suggestions to you but after you read everything give us some specifics and we'll be glad to answer them.

[FiReSTaRT]

Look into Belgian stones.

P.S. Welcome to the SRP Mike

[RichZ]

Welcome to the site.
I agree get the Norton 4k/8k and read the site on honing lots of good instructions.

[xman]

Welcome to the site Mike. Congratulations on surviving 25 years in the wilderness on your own. I know I could not have done it. There's lots of catching up for you to do.

On having ruined the dynamic of the blade. I'd say the chiped one is a no go, but clearly you have a pioneer spirit. unless the metal has been grossly worn away it should be able to achieve a good edge. I've returned blades with a dip in the middle to a good shape and created a decent bevel on more like many guys here so it should be possible for you. Look in the Permanent Archives for The Pyramid and use the search function for the same and you should be off to a good start. Keep reading the forums and keep engaged with the great and thoughtful gents here as well.

Getting a Lynn honed razor should be quite a treat for you and believe when you get it thata youcan achieve the same edges yourself and I suspect, with your experiene, quite soon.

X

[AFDavis11]

Welcome,

Get the new razor and read up here on our ideas, you'll do well. At this point your razor probably needs regrinding, not honing. There is a company you can send it out to for that if you want to go through the trouble. The basic principles of honing are simple, I think you just did too much of it. Probably better at this point just to get the new razor and hone as we suggest on this site. You've got tons of skill, I would imagine.

Besides the excessive passes you've done, you may want to consider a pasted paddle strop to help achieve that smooth edge.

I believe a lot of that smooth edge stuff comes from my excessive stropping and has nothing to do with honing.

I would also look in the permanent archive under the barbers manuals. Great read, follow the ideas precisely and you'll learn lots. Additionally, your honing technique has probably created an improper curve in the edge. Read up on how to fix that if you suspect that may be the culprit.

Welcome to the site. You have a lot of teaching to do. We've been waiting for you.

[EdinLA44]

Hi Mike,

Welcome. Your 25 years of shaving experience will be helpful for the group and there are also lots of experienced folks here that can help you. That's the magic and greatness of this site. You'll have a great time here.

Check out the Honing and Stropping sub-forum and read all the old posts. It'll probably make your head spin though. Many like the Norton 4/8 but take a look also at the Belgian stones that Tony Miller sells as well as his collection of strops (he also sells the Belgian Coticules). I use Tony's pre-pasted 4-sided strop to touch up my razors so they only need to be honed maybe every 6 months, if that. There's a wealth of information on this site so enjoy.

Ed