Thread: New genuine Nakayama?

Perhaps you can re-post in the Japan section of the Forum! I think that would be your best bet for translation!

This has nothing to do with this thread but you all know, animals have skin, rocks don't. It's the weathered surface or unweathered surface.

Dang and here I thought I was picking up some cool rock slang lingo in the know kinda thing.

Originally Posted by cudarunner

Perhaps you can re-post in the Japan section of the Forum! I think that would be your best bet for translation!

An excellent idea! Thank you!

You stones wood base has a note written by the owner that reads in part "Mistui" probably a retail shop and "Heisei 2nd" or 1991. Most likely just a note to himself as a reminder of where he bought it.

The photos of the skin do not have enough detail, but there are several mines very near Nakayama that have similar colored skin. Some people here think that all of the mines have the same coloration or patterns, but this is not true. Each mine has indicatiors just like the Coticule stones from various veins have indicators, and for the Nakayama it is a sparkle in the black that is unique. Below are some photos showing that sparkle which is only in the black portion of the skin and the crystals of the sparkle are large enough to see with the naked eye when viewed in a good light, and they are different than from the grit silica which is a much much finer granual. The photos also show the typical colors of umber, burnt umber, ocher, and black. The area of pink shown on the right is a concentrated spot of radiolaria called "renge" in Japan that translates as lotus which is found only in suita stones.

It is not easy to distinguish from one mine to the next and it helps to have some known reference stones for comparrison. I have set aside a group of known stones from the over 700 stones that I have bought over the years just for reference. The mines in the Yamashiro area are grouped along and up through a valley that is about 5 miles long, and each mines product is unique.

There are more than a few people even here in the west and many stone enthusiasts in Japan that very likely could while walking along in some neck of the woods spot a lost or discarded Japanese Honyama stone along side the road, actually pick it up, get on a plane, train and bus up into the Umegahata valley and be able to place that stone to withing 500 yards from where it was mined 100 or 200 years ago. Geology is not a myth, it is a science.

Alx

Originally Posted by alx

You stones wood base has a note written by the owner that reads in part "Mistui" probably a retail shop and "Heisei 2nd" or 1991. Most likely just a note to himself as a reminder of where he bought it.

The photos of the skin do not have enough detail, but there are several mines very near Nakayama that have similar colored skin. Some people here think that all of the mines have the same coloration or patterns, but this is not true. Each mine has indicatiors just like the Coticule stones from various veins have indicators, and for the Nakayama it is a sparkle in the black that is unique. Below are some photos showing that sparkle which is only in the black portion of the skin and the crystals of the sparkle are large enough to see with the naked eye when viewed in a good light, and they are different than from the grit silica which is a much much finer granual. The photos also show the typical colors of umber, burnt umber, ocher, and black. The area of pink shown on the right is a concentrated spot of radiolaria called "renge" in Japan that translates as lotus which is found only in suita stones.

It is not easy to distinguish from one mine to the next and it helps to have some known reference stones for comparrison. I have set aside a group of known stones from the over 700 stones that I have bought over the years just for reference. The mines in the Yamashiro area are grouped along and up through a valley that is about 5 miles long, and each mines product is unique.

There are more than a few people even here in the west and many stone enthusiasts in Japan that very likely could while walking along in some neck of the woods spot a lost or discarded Japanese Honyama stone along side the road, actually pick it up, get on a plane, train and bus up into the Umegahata valley and be able to place that stone to withing 500 yards from where it was mined 100 or 200 years ago. Geology is not a myth, it is a science.

Alx

Fantastic reply! Thank you very much to share this information with us!
It's a treasure!
I can't find sparkles but that's OK, I like the stone very much either way

Hope that I can save fast, so that I can acquire a stone with you!

Kindest regards

Is the color of this stone specific for Nakayama
or can it be found in other mines?

Thank you,

Kindest regards

Originally Posted by Fikira

Is the color of this stone specific for Nakayama
or can it be found in other mines?

All of the mines share the same basic mineral ingredients but each is unique for two main reasons. The minerals were dispersed in the original event over a wide range and settled in pools or water as sediment. The wind blow minerals were sorted out by gravity so that the heavier grains fell first and closest to the source (a volcano eruption or from a volcanic deposit from a previous eruption) while the finer particles were carried farther to settle. This is why the finest (not controversial) stones are mined near to the city limits of Kyoto while the somewhat coarser stones are dug farther to the west near or beyond the town of Kameoka. There are some anomalies but this is the general thought.

The second factor is that the stone deposits are actually what is called Mono-sedimentary stones, meaning another transformationl event took place. This happened when the original deposits were scraped off like a scab from the Pacfic tetonic plate to become what is now Japan as the Pacific plate subducted under the Eurasian plate. During this period the sedimentary rock was heated and kneaded and jumbled around a bit. I am not a geologist, just a hobbiest but the documents are out there.

These two occurances allowed each portion of the Tamba Terrane to take on characters unique to their geographical location. So the minerals are basically the same, the layering is basiclly the same but there are subtle differences in color and texture from mine to mine. You stone has what we call the cloudy or foggy pattern that is unique to the Narutaki and Nakayama mine. With the absence of the sparkly black minerals on your stone it will be most likely from the Narutaki mine, but without haveing the stone in my hand this is only at best a deduction based on a guess.

Good luck with it.

Alx

Originally Posted by alx

With the absence of the sparkly black minerals on your stone it will be most likely from the Narutaki mine, but without haveing the stone in my hand this is only at best a deduction based on a guess.

Alx, as an interested observer I've been following your posts on this. Not being familiar with the geography of Japan I'm wondering what would the characteristics of a stone from the Narutaki mine be ? A finisher or a coarser mix ?

While Germany did not have volcanic eruptions AFAIK, is there any geologic historical info you can give regarding the Thuringan stones and perhaps the coticules ? I'm very interested in this stuff.

Originally Posted by alx

All of the mines share the same basic mineral ingredients but each is unique for two main reasons. The minerals were dispersed in the original event over a wide range and settled in pools or water as sediment. The wind blow minerals were sorted out by gravity so that the heavier grains fell first and closest to the source (a volcano eruption or from a volcanic deposit from a previous eruption) while the finer particles were carried farther to settle. This is why the finest (not controversial) stones are mined near to the city limits of Kyoto while the somewhat coarser stones are dug farther to the west near or beyond the town of Kameoka. There are some anomalies but this is the general thought.

The second factor is that the stone deposits are actually what is called Mono-sedimentary stones, meaning another transformationl event took place. This happened when the original deposits were scraped off like a scab from the Pacfic tetonic plate to become what is now Japan as the Pacific plate subducted under the Eurasian plate. During this period the sedimentary rock was heated and kneaded and jumbled around a bit. I am not a geologist, just a hobbiest but the documents are out there.

These two occurances allowed each portion of the Tamba Terrane to take on characters unique to their geographical location. So the minerals are basically the same, the layering is basiclly the same but there are subtle differences in color and texture from mine to mine. You stone has what we call the cloudy or foggy pattern that is unique to the Narutaki and Nakayama mine. With the absence of the sparkly black minerals on your stone it will be most likely from the Narutaki mine, but without haveing the stone in my hand this is only at best a deduction based on a guess.

Good luck with it.

Alx

Again a fantastic reply, it is really gold!

If you're talking about having the stone in your hands,
Do you mean that you need more detail of the surface of the hone of the kawa?
Or are more detailed pics not enough? I would if you will, send you more detailed
pics if I know what your looking for

I'm getting the idea that we're not far from the truth,
But it's getting more and more intriguing, on the one hand I would like to know,
on the other hand sending it away for awhile...

Thank you very much for your guidance!

Kindest regards