Thread: JNAT & Nagura questions/identification - help!

If you hone from a prospective of sharpness Koma can be deemed unnecessary, but if you hone from a prospective of refinement, Koma is crucial.

Originally Posted by Nikolay

What way?

How do you get the same result as koma could give using meijiro nagura only?

Make slurry on the base hone hone on it, they usual way.

Originally Posted by Bayamontate

If you hone from a prospective of sharpness Koma can be deemed unnecessary, but if you hone from a prospective of refinement, Koma is crucial.

The base stone is what determines the fineness, does not matter what slurry stone is used.

Originally Posted by Nikolay

Is there any ideas how to find most appropriate tomo nagura for the stone?

Should it be exactly the same as stone? Should it be softer?

I have found that sometimes it is too hard to get as good result as Mikawa Nagura could give with a peace of the same stone.

You want softer stone than the base.
The ideal tomonagura is soft, fine and fast, not easy to find combination.

Do you think the OP is confused yet?

Originally Posted by mainaman

The base stone is what determines the fineness, does not matter what slurry stone is used.

So you think that when one could hone with BOTAN nagura on the most finest stone the result would be the same as with KOMA on the same stone?
Don't you?

Originally Posted by mainaman

You want softer stone than the base.
The ideal tomonagura is soft, fine and fast, not easy to find combination.

As for jnats it seems to be impossible because all the finest japanese stones I have ever seen are hard and relatively slow.
Take a look to the topic http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...harpening.html

Originally Posted by Nikolay

So you think that when one could hone with BOTAN nagura on the most finest stone the result would be the same as with KOMA on the same stone?
Don't you?

I do not recall saying anything about Botan, and that was for a reason.

As for jnats it seems to be impossible because all the finest japanese stones I have ever seen are hard and relatively slow.

What is your sample space? Can't make conclusions from trying several hones, try about a hundred then you are going to start to get the picture.

Originally Posted by Nikolay

As for jnats it seems to be impossible because all the finest japanese stones I have ever seen are hard and relatively slow.
Take a look to the topic http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...harpening.html

I have a little over 50 jnats in my collection and one of my finest jnats (unknown mined Kiita) if i had to estimate a hardness between 1-5 would be a 4. It will release a slurry after some work but the slurry is super fine, almost like somone splashed milk one the stone.

I also have a super hard Nakayama, easily a level 5 that is quite scratchy, not a true finisher IMHO and much faster then my level 4 stone.

while hardness equaling a better finisher is the general belief i dont believe its always the case. A translucent arkansas is a hard stone although i dont think the arkansas i own is as good as the final polish on my level 4 unknown kiita stone.

maniaman is dead right, you could test hundreds of jnats and still be surprised and form new opinions.

Originally Posted by mainaman

I do not recall saying anything about Botan, and that was for a reason.



What is your sample space? Can't make conclusions from trying several hones, try about a hundred then you are going to start to get the picture.

Thank you for quick reply.

My question has been about tomo nagura ( 共名倉 )。
And I think I'd prefer to buy one good koma than test some hundreds of stones to find which one is better to use it as tomo nagura.

Actually I already have some Koma naguras. You know it and you have seen it.

As of sample space I don't know how many stones have I tried. I don't count it.
I can say only that I have tried some tens of Nakayama Maruka and Maruichi including Suita, Kiita and Asagi and some good and hard Ozaki.

And I trust Alex Gilmore ( alx ) and his experience about hardness.

Originally Posted by Brighty83

I have a little over 50 jnats in my collection and one of my finest jnats (unknown mined Kiita) if i had to estimate a hardness between 1-5 would be a 4. It will release a slurry after some work but the slurry is super fine, almost like somone splashed milk one the stone.

I also have a super hard Nakayama, easily a level 5 that is quite scratchy, not a true finisher IMHO and much faster then my level 4 stone.

while hardness equaling a better finisher is the general belief i dont believe its always the case. A translucent arkansas is a hard stone although i dont think the arkansas i own is as good as the final polish on my level 4 unknown kiita stone.

maniaman is dead right, you could test hundreds of jnats and still be surprised and form new opinions.

Well it's good idea to try as many jants as it is ever possible but I think that any good research should be well targeted not random.
That's why I'd prefer to stick to Iwasaki's recommendations for choosing razor hones.
That's why I am very grateful to Jim Rion and to Alex Gilmore for sharing their experience with jnats.
And that is why I'd avoid to play crap shoot with such guys like 330mate.

I belive that buying and trying of thousands and even millions of crap-stones wouldn't give you any success.

But the Koma is irreverent to a good edge, the Tomo is used at the final stage, after the Koma.
I've got the full set of Mikawa naguras, Botan, Mejiro, Tenjio and Koma, I use them just for fun.
You get the same edge honing on synthetics up to 15-20K and then use the Tomo on a good Jnat.