Thread: diamond film

I tried the typical progression of lapping film and found them to be very good at getting a razor sharp. If smoothness and comfortable keenness are your goals this media is not the best way to proceed, the edges are markedly harsh. I would try them anyway, they are relatively inexpensive.

This is interesting. Believers and doubters of films. I am just a beginner so I have much to learn. In a previous life I used a lot of CBN on hardened tool steels. It is great stuff. Diamond was used much less by industry. Part of that reason was simple cost. I am still confused. It would seem to me that the sharper the tool the less resistance the hair should present. The less pulling should be the most comfortable? What does a diamond edge have that makes it less comfortable? Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

Diamond cuts fast but DEEP. The particles are crystalline as opposed to crox and cbn which iir are round. This can be felt as a million tiny daggers(LOL) well you can feel the diamond as compared to other medium. You can try it yourself to see. I already did and although at first I was sold on it, but I realized the harsh feeling was not desirable nor acceptable to me. Many people use it and love it, Im not one of them though.

Originally Posted by jerry1

What does a diamond edge have that makes it less comfortable?

My thought process behind this although not scientific is this.

As you shave even with light pressure the edge and part of the bevel skim your face,

Diamonds as an abrasive have very angular surfaces compared to other abrasive compounds,

and as such leave a scratch pattern that's ridges are also sharp.

This results in your face being scratched more aggressively than when other mediums are used.

This is what leads to the harsher feeling and potentially discomfort and or razor burn for some.

Sharp is sharp, smooth is smooth.

Sharp enough to cut hairs with no resistance and smooth feeling on my face is what I aim for.

Again just my take/thoughts on it.

I agree with the guys above about the diamond particles. But, when I started shaving, I don't remember me being particularly picky about the harshness of the edges. Today, if the edges of my razors are not smooth enough, I don't like them. But then, as long as it could deliver a sharp edge that could cut without resistance, I was satisfied. Actually, I don't think I even knew what harshness was. There was sharp and not sharp enough.

Originally Posted by jerry1

This is interesting. Believers and doubters of films. I am just a beginner so I have much to learn. In a previous life I used a lot of CBN on hardened tool steels. It is great stuff. Diamond was used much less by industry. Part of that reason was simple cost. I am still confused. It would seem to me that the sharper the tool the less resistance the hair should present. The less pulling should be the most comfortable? What does a diamond edge have that makes it less comfortable? Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

"Believers & doubters of films". No sir, experience talking. What we are talking about is on the microscopic level which requires magnification beyond what I have. A razor for the face is a tool, but a tool that is used on soft tissue. We have to keep this in mind as we want the blade to glide over the skin and mow down the whiskers that are poking out. Many razors (90-95%) cannot handle much over 1 micron when it comes to the edge as it becomes too fragile. Some pastes & sprays will break down as you use them, but the diamonds are some tough boogers. Diamonds will make a razor's edge feel rather "crisp" on the face.

I revert back to my same statement when it comes to films: How many veteran honers do you see using films for honing? I actually don't know of any. Go ahead and experiment, that's how you gain experience. Once you gain experience...you will end up with stones and echo the sentiments.

Originally Posted by jerry1

This is interesting. Believers and doubters of films. I am just a beginner so I have much to learn. In a previous life I used a lot of CBN on hardened tool steels. It is great stuff. Diamond was used much less by industry. Part of that reason was simple cost. I am still confused. It would seem to me that the sharper the tool the less resistance the hair should present. The less pulling should be the most comfortable? What does a diamond edge have that makes it less comfortable? Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.

I posted this http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...spray-sem.html
some time ago, explaining why diamond stropping can produce a harsh shaving blade, if incorrectly used, although there was not much interest.

There are some images of diamond and CBN here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...compounds.html and you will see that they are indistinguishable. I do not believe that abrasive will break down on a strop.

Lapping film is no different than hones or abrasive strops. If incorrectly used they produce poor results. I honed on a Jnat once and the edge was not very sharp. Should I conclude that Jnats produce dull edges?

The razor needs to be sharp enough. Sharper than sharp enough only risks skin irritation. Personally, I have never experienced a blade that is too sharp, but then very few people have whiskers as thick as mine. I also don't believe harshness is caused by the razor being too sharp, but that is another story.

Well,

I didn`t try all but i try CBN few times. I can`t tell is really drastically improving shaving experience. I have few ERN old razor, with almost not existing blade (many years of use) which I tested on CBN, oil hone and water hone. Difference was minimal to none, however I overdone once with CBN. Blade was harsh and dull very fast. Smoothest shave I got from oil hone and smooth and little more sharp from water hone. Of course depend of what stone you use as finisher. Don`t ask me what hones I used because I have so many, many unknown so I start using numbers instead of names for my hones.

Few which i know and tested: Escher with water-smooth and sharp
LI on ild-my is extremely smooth, i guess best I ever could get.
Thuri-depend of which one I can get good balance between smooth or sharp.
C12K-well my is so hard that after 300 passes i get really good edge-better or close to coti

I tested CBN with many of the stones and sometimes I have seen blade degradation, sometimes it help but as i said difference is not worth paying for CBN (my personal opinion).
I better invest in good natural stone hone (and there is also more fun with stones too). Now I`m testing hone #17 (I guess this one is Water or Ary-or something similar...).