Thread: Escher Skills Update

Originally Posted by rmagnus

I can't say I've gone down the rabbit hole of honing yet but I have found the entrance. I've been using a set of Naniwa superstones finishing on the 12K with great results. Pressure seems to influence the degree of polishing with all stones and certainly the 12K is no exception.

Yet I keep looking down that rabbit hole. Is there better or a best? I see this as the flavor of the month. Yea there starts a thread about how great one stone is over the others but once you get to the outstanding level is there really something better?

Over the years stones have been improved and yes there is a quantifiable difference between good, excellent and outstanding. I also do automotive car detailing and there is a rabbit hole of car waxes as well. At some point there are diminishing returns with car wax as well.

While the straight razor hobby is newer to me the level of sharpness and buttery smooth shaves are available from the Naniawa's. I must admit some blades are not as easy to achieve this level ans some will not get there. This leaves me wondering is it because of the steel used for the blade, my technique or perhaps the stone used?

Can a Gokumyo 20K stone really make that quantative improvement above outstanding and is it repeatable? I've seen these stones go for $250-500 so they are not cheap. I'm still undecided on the outside of the rabbit hole looking in just wondering if we are splitting hairs (pun intended).

I'm no expert but there is always better, untill you hit some very expensive Japanese natural stones.
I just spent £160 on a Gokumyo 20k , which i cant afford it , but i dont care lol. (customs will rob me also)
I shaved today off a Thuringian and it was a super smooth shave , so if there is better than that, i want it..

Originally Posted by JOB15

I'm no expert but there is always better, untill you hit some very expensive Japanese natural stones [..]

Don't be fooled by the ridiculously high prices on Jnats, they are usually related to rarity, not performance If you decide to buy a Jnat one day, which for some reason I think you will, buy from someone who tried it with their own razors and can give you good advice. Maksim at JapaneseNaturalStones has a good reputation, for one.

Originally Posted by rmagnus

I can't say I've gone down the rabbit hole of honing yet but I have found the entrance. I've been using a set of Naniwa superstones finishing on the 12K with great results. Pressure seems to influence the degree of polishing with all stones and certainly the 12K is no exception.

Yet I keep looking down that rabbit hole. Is there better or a best? I see this as the flavor of the month. Yea there starts a thread about how great one stone is over the others but once you get to the outstanding level is there really something better?

Over the years stones have been improved and yes there is a quantifiable difference between good, excellent and outstanding. I also do automotive car detailing and there is a rabbit hole of car waxes as well. At some point there are diminishing returns with car wax as well.

While the straight razor hobby is newer to me the level of sharpness and buttery smooth shaves are available from the Naniawa's. I must admit some blades are not as easy to achieve this level ans some will not get there. This leaves me wondering is it because of the steel used for the blade, my technique or perhaps the stone used?

Can a Gokumyo 20K stone really make that quantative improvement above outstanding and is it repeatable? I've seen these stones go for $250-500 so they are not cheap. I'm still undecided on the outside of the rabbit hole looking in just wondering if we are splitting hairs (pun intended).

Laurens is spot on as it relates to the expense of Jnats. Don't misunderstand, they are all expensive but not necessarily back breaking. You can get a small stone that will handle most, if not all, of your honing needs for under $150. If its worth it to you to jump into it is purely a measure of your current satisfaction. I got involved with these two options because my edges were simply not as good as the ones I was enjoying from the razors that were sent out to be honed by a pro. You hear time and again that you should be able to get a good shaving edge off of an 8k stone. That's true but it should not be confused with the edges that your pro honed razors will have. If you're like me and really want that level of sharp and comfort, you'll want to make that next step. There certainly are flavors of the month as it relates to stones. In the end, you have to find out what you like from a stone. I had a Zulu grey as well but preferred the edge from my Jnat. So I sold that stone. But other people may prefer to have that edge over a Jnat. If you are content with the results of a 12k stone, I'd stick with it until you have an opinion about where you'd like to go next or what kind of edge you'd like to have next. It'll help keep you out of the flavor of the month game.

EDIT: Also, as it relates to what you were asking about some razors not getting there with you current 12k stone, I had similar experiences. But when I got a Jnat, even the more problematic razors that didn't want to take that great edge off of the 12k suddenly were doing exactly what I was hoping for off of the Jnat. I had three or four such blades and all were solved with my my Jnat. I can't guarantee the same level of success for you but it solved my problematic issues.

I use Escher as the last stone before a belt with paste, the stone shows excellent result. Stone good on the in properties.

Originally Posted by JOB15

I'm no expert but there is always better, untill you hit some very expensive Japanese natural stones.
I just spent £160 on a Gokumyo 20k , which i cant afford it , but i dont care lol. (customs will rob me also)
I shaved today off a Thuringian and it was a super smooth shave , so if there is better than that, i want it..

Trust me I understand. My process is very much like yours. After the Naniwa 12K I strop on linen (so far I haven't had to use Crox) then rough leather then smooth leather, 50 and 100 strokes respectively. My eye loupe is 30X and through it the edges is mirror like and smooth. I just don't know how much further it can be taken and then there are the other questions, consistency, durability etc.

I have 4 W&B variuos widths and they all hone up fantastically and each has their unique characteristics but all are smooth. Seems like I can make unlimited passes without irritation. This is not true of mt other razors. While the other perform well there are limits to the number of passes before irritation sets in. Usually thats around 4 passes plus clean ups so I really don't have any complaints.

Money is money it comes and goes. Mostly it goes soaffordability is usually a short term issue. My philolosphy is buy the best because in a few weeks you'll forget how much it costs anyway.

Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Laurens is spot on as it relates to the expense of Jnats. Don't misunderstand, they are all expensive but not necessarily back breaking. You can get a small stone that will handle most, if not all, of your honing needs for under $150. If its worth it to you to jump into it is purely a measure of your current satisfaction. I got involved with these two options because my edges were simply not as good as the ones I was enjoying from the razors that were sent out to be honed by a pro. You hear time and again that you should be able to get a good shaving edge off of an 8k stone. That's true but it should not be confused with the edges that your pro honed razors will have. If you're like me and really want that level of sharp and comfort, you'll want to make that next step. There certainly are flavors of the month as it relates to stones. In the end, you have to find out what you like from a stone. I had a Zulu grey as well but preferred the edge from my Jnat. So I sold that stone. But other people may prefer to have that edge over a Jnat. If you are content with the results of a 12k stone, I'd stick with it until you have an opinion about where you'd like to go next or what kind of edge you'd like to have next. It'll help keep you out of the flavor of the month game.

EDIT: Also, as it relates to what you were asking about some razors not getting there with you current 12k stone, I had similar experiences. But when I got a Jnat, even the more problematic razors that didn't want to take that great edge off of the 12k suddenly were doing exactly what I was hoping for off of the Jnat. I had three or four such blades and all were solved with my my Jnat. I can't guarantee the same level of success for you but it solved my problematic issues.

Great advise. Never used anything but Naniwas because so many of the gurus here touted them and to me they we a great investment. I just know there is a point of diminishing returns in just about everthing. I'm just saying I don't know. I certainly do not desire to own several dozen stones searching for that perfect edge whivh may not exist. In the end it still needs to be combined with shaving technique to make it all happen.

Originally Posted by rmagnus

Great advise. Never used anything but Naniwas because so many of the gurus here touted them and to me they we a great investment. I just know there is a point of diminishing returns in just about everthing. I'm just saying I don't know. I certainly do not desire to own several dozen stones searching for that perfect edge whivh may not exist. In the end it still needs to be combined with shaving technique to make it all happen.

I have the shapton range and the stone holder. I also want that pond.
I listed my 30k for sale today but then took it off. I cant let go of it. I wanted it for so long and paid so much for it. I think i need to give it bit more of a chance.
I think i'll steer clear of Jnats for a few years, i'm sure by then there will be a new synthetic stone that polishes better than anything natural and makes a fine cuppa tea too

Hi, with the Gokumyo 20K there is a conditioning stone 1/3k.
Whats that for, ok conditioning
Is it for cleaning the stone or making a slurry?

Originally Posted by JOB15

Hi, with the Gokumyo 20K there is a conditioning stone 1/3k.
Whats that for, ok conditioning
Is it for cleaning the stone or making a slurry?

Yes, cleaning/conditioning.
No point in 3k slurry on a 20k finisher.

Originally Posted by JOB15

Hi, with the Gokumyo 20K there is a conditioning stone 1/3k.
Whats that for, ok conditioning
Is it for cleaning the stone or making a slurry?

I don't know. I've never used it, and I never felt that I needed to use it to achieve the edges I want. And, to answer your first question, it is certainly smooth enough for me.