Thread: King 6K, 10K or 12K next.

Hey.

I've got 3 dtm's, the king icebear 1K/6K combi, and a trans arkie.

I'm thinking about adding a synthetic finishing stone to the line up. I've read that the king 6K is near to the Norton 8K in terms of grit and polish. So should I go with the 10K or 12K Naniwa. I don't have the funds for the Chosera.

I'm thinking the 10K is probably more ideal for me atm. I have a pasted strop and can always add a little smoothness on that.

Many thanks.

I noticed that you have a trans arkie. While I don't own one, I have heard that they can be used as finishing stones similar to Chinease Natural 12k, Dragon's Tongue, etc. Might you be able to save money and just go straight from the King 6k to the arkie?

The reason I point this out is that my routine is to go from a Norton 1k, 4k, and 8k to the CNat 12k. I get very nice edges off of my CNat. So if the King Icebar 6k is more like a Norton 8k, it makes me wonder if you could just jump straight to a natural finisher like you arkie?

Otherwise, the Naniwa 10k seems to come heavily recommended and appears a good value.

I've actually been going from the King to the trans arkie, I'm not planning on removing it from the rotation. I do however want to reduce the time I need to spend on that stone. Straight from the 6K the arkie is taking 150 laps to get a nice edge. It is far too easy to spend over an hour on the arkie and still not be where you want to be. I'm thinking if I drop the 10K in as a filler stone I might be able to get that down.

Dropping the 10k in as a filler stone might speed things up, but 150 laps on the arkie does not seem all that high. I have to do about 100-150 on my Cnat when jumping from the Norton 8k. Plus, aren't arkie's known to be slow cutters? 150 laps seems pretty normal.

On another note, how do you like the arkie? I've been thinking about trying out some some other natural finishers to compare them to my CNat.

Originally Posted by Iceni

Hey.

I've got 3 dtm's, the king icebear 1K/6K combi, and a trans arkie.

I'm thinking about adding a synthetic finishing stone to the line up. I've read that the king 6K is near to the Norton 8K in terms of grit and polish. So should I go with the 10K or 12K Naniwa. I don't have the funds for the Chosera.

If I'm reading this correctly; you are jumping from a 1K to a 6-8K. Personally a 3-4K for in between would be a better choice than looking for a finisher at this point in time!

Originally Posted by Iceni

I'm thinking the 10K is probably more ideal for me atm. I have a pasted strop and can always add a little smoothness on that.

I think that if you would invest in a 3-4K/perhaps a Norton 4/8K this would open up your honing world!

Pasted strops are a fine and useful tool, however until you can get a close and comfortable shave off of a 8K hone, buying a higher grit finisher is a waste of time and money!

Once you've gotten the 8K down pat, I would highly recommend the Naniwa 12K as it will give you the biggest bang for the buck out there! With that said, remember that I said once the shaves are excellent off of the 8K the 12K would be great!

The arkie is pretty strange TBF.

It has a course grit and the stone doesn't work by using the grit at all. You lap it flat, then go nuts with some steel over the surface. The grit kind of breaks down into a glassy finish. It's that glassy finish that does the work. You can't use a slurry, and you can't make the stone any faster. You only get 2 options water or oil.

That been said the edge it gives is very nice. I think there was a thread a few weeks ago by one of the master honers that went into detail about finishers and he had a section on trans arkies and how they affect the blade finish. It may have been an old thread I read browsing.

Basically he was comparing the C12K Arkie Coti and CF. He was using a microscope and seeing if the hone could improve on an 8K norton edge and how much of an improvement there was. It was a very interesting read. I'll try find it in my history.

If I'm reading this correctly; you are jumping from a 1K to a 6-8K

It's a Japanese 1K. So all bets are off when it comes to the stepping. I believe a J1K is about 1.5K iso grit, It's a big jump but it's not too hard to work into.

The J1K should be about 11 microns. The J6K 2microns. So either a J2K at 6.5 microns or a N4K at 6 microns would be perfect.

If I start to think that part of the rotation is lacking then I'll act on it. Thank you for the advice here

That's pretty interesting. So are you saying that the action of moving the razor (steel) across the ark creates grit, and it is the grit that polishes/sharpens the razor? Does the grit break down on the surface of the stone, or is the grit come loose as a sort of slurry?

I own a few stones that include both Arki's, Nortons, 12 Naniwa, and A 12 China. I have used all of them on razors, and for me the best shaves come from my Arki's. I attribute this to the fact that I may use more pressure then most when I sharpen. I do find it takes just a little bit longer with the Arki's but I sharpen for fun so I do not mind. Off the surgical Arki.. the shave is smooth and buttery and is simply the best that I have done. Adding more stones is never a bad thing, but I am not sure for myself, that I would need something in between.

So it sounds like you like your Arki surgical better than the CNat and that you find you get smoother and more buttery shaves. Is it one of those stones where it is very smooth (like a coti), but not very sharp/keen? Or do you find it both smooth and sharp? I would describe the edge of my CNat as sharp, but notably smooth.

Also, any recommended sources for a good Arki that is at least 8x2?

That's pretty interesting. So are you saying that the action of moving the razor (steel) across the ark creates grit, and it is the grit that polishes/sharpens the razor? Does the grit break down on the surface of the stone, or is the grit come loose as a sort of slurry?

The steel breaks the grit rather than loosening it. The stone is that hard that the grit doesn't come loose, hence no slurry. When you break it your actually smashing the grit into smaller flatter lumps, Until the whole surface is very glass like. It's hard to explain. The more you use it the more the face of the stone polishes itself as it breaks into a smoother surface.

Lapping them is fun Expect it to take hours akries are hard, And because they don't shed grit at all you have to grind through it with wet and dry.

I found that link BTW. It's not from this forum so I apologize for the bed netiquette. Modine is a member here as well so it's not too bad I suppose. It's also not a Coti, C12K comparison, My brain must have been playing late night tricks on me the other night

Novaculite or Chert natural hone test

This thread is also the reason I was thinking about adding another stone between the 6K and the arkie. It seems that a good Arkie can improve even a 15K edge.