Thread: Which Jnat will give me the sharpest edge?

And of course, still a smooth one.

I've been looking at and reading about Jnats and have had the luck of getting two of my razors honed on an Oozuku and Nakayama. This is what the honer said about them:

In my view everything above a ~10K finish is rather mystical and emotional and not cold hard facts . I'd say that the Nakayama and Oozuku finish is very similar, maybe the Oozuku is bit sharper and "aggressive" while the Nakayama is smoother.

I have two Nakayamas, one being a genuine Nakayama Maruka which is very pure gives fantastic "creamy" feedback while honing. It also is incredibly fast on slurry and leaves a hazy finish. I stay quite long on the slurry without refreshing to allow it to break down but I don't let it go dry.
Then I go to my Nakayma Iromono whith tomo nagura slurry (or the Oozuku) the same way as above and then I finish with one layer of tape and very light 10-15 strokes on pure water. No pastes, just leather.

I have the feeling I still know very little about them, but JNS has some pretty cheap ones that might give me just what I want: a very sharp and yet comfy edge. The Oozuku edge amazes me every time and beats the Nakayama edge for me.

I would like to hear some suggestions and experiences from you guys. I've got a very hard/tough beard and the Jnat sharpness adds pleasure and comfort to my shaves, I want to reach that level of sharpness myself. I do consider the Gokumyo 20K, but money is a big factor for me.

So the main question: can I get that desired very sharp and smooth edge from a Jnat below, say, €150 and what stone do you suggest?

Thank you guys in advance!

That whole area of hones is just too confusing for me. I also find it hard to spend that level of money on items that I can't pergola and try before I have them sent by someone I don't know. Good luck.

Which Jnat will give me the sharpest edge?


Mine

This is the problem with all naturals, they are unique, which is part of their allure, there is no "Best" there is simply getting one and learning to use it to get the best from it


(assuming that we are talking sensible here about quality finishing stones)

Originally Posted by Johnus

That whole area of hones is just too confusing for me. I also find it hard to spend that level of money on items that I can't pergola and try before I have them sent by someone I don't know. Good luck.

Fair point, but some sellers will let you try a Jnat before you buy! I don't know who, just quoting something I read here.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Which Jnat will give me the sharpest edge?


Mine

This is the problem with all naturals, they are unique, which is part of their allure, there is no "Best" there is simply getting one and learning to use it to get the best from it


(assuming that we are talking sensible here about quality finishing stones)

How much you want for it?
You're right about the uniqueness, though I hope there are properties such as strata and hardness that indicate what sort of edge a hone will produce.

Originally Posted by Laurens

You're right about the uniqueness, though I hope there are properties such as strata and hardness that indicate what sort of edge a hone will produce.

I believe there are people, that believe that they can tell you that best advice I have to give when it comes to Natural hones especially J-nats is to ask about the return/exchange policy..
Which IMHO is totally unfair to the seller

Here is my thoughts on why..

Let's talk about my Nakayama here, I know the edge it is capable of producing, it took me about 100 different razors to feel comfortable enough with that stone to think I had a "System" down that worked consistently... It is NOT an easy to use stone..

Now say I sold you the stone, and being a good vendor I offered you a Return/Exchange policy, you buy the stone and try it for a few razors and this stone is outside your abilities, and you want to return it.. Is that the stones fault ???? is that fair ???

Anyway just some thoughts, and no my "Precious" is not for sale

After thinking that I overcame my HAD, and sold my best stones, I ended up reading about Jnats on the Jnat club thread. And that darned HAD kicked back!
So, I searched for them, stones, sellers, types, articles, and learned from members here (Alex, JimR, Maksim, amongst others), that, western stones like nakayama, ozuku, shobu, were good, and, the wakasa and maybe maruoyama that are not from somewhere near Tōkyō, are good for razors, and basically, any stone from a mine that's in it's final years, where stones are extracted from as deep as possible are good from razors.
The slurry stones are very useful, and, experience on how to use them is even more useful.
And, I ended buying one shobu, and one ozuku, big sized, pure stones. I chose a very hard ozuku kiita over a very hard nakayama asagi, although both looked good, I hope I chose right.
I've been wondering if Jnats can give better shaves than European stones. I'll have time to test them and see for myself.

Anyway, the smooth vs sharp, everyone has his own preferences. CrOx vs Diamond. There is no definite answer.
Anyone interested, I can give you updates on the stones.

I too am in the middle of experimenting with a few naturals, only after what I feel is some reasonable success with synthetics. The trouble for the average shaver is that unless you're turning over large quantities of razors, you're really stuck with playing with what you've got. But that's ok in a sense, cause you really only care about getting the best edge from those particular razors - everything else doesn't really matter.
So to that end, I'll finish a particular razor in rotation on my naniwa 12k, which provides a very nice shave, then go back to a natural to see how it compares. I try to stick with the same razor for that test to make sure I'm getting apples to apples.

So, instead of going through 100 razors to dial in a process on a natural like Glen says, I'm going to have to do 5 razors 20 times each (at least, obviously). That may not give the breadth of learning of every type of razor, but that's ok if you get good edges off what you got.
So what's all this rambling about? I think really the only option is to fork over the money for a natural that you are interested in and work it for as long as it takes to convince yourself it's either good or bad. Good, then keep it, bad, then sell it and hopefully get something very near what you paid...

Apart from the money you have to shell out to try different hones, I really love this side of SR shaving. I would definitely say I'm more interested in chasing edges than chasing razors. It's a good feeling to know exactly what a particular razor in the rotation needs to get that sublime edge.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

...
Here is my thoughts on why..

Let's talk about my Nakayama here, I know the edge it is capable of producing, it took me about 100 different razors to feel comfortable enough with that stone to think I had a "System" down that worked consistently... It is NOT an easy to use stone..

Now say I sold you the stone, and being a good vendor I offered you a Return/Exchange policy, you buy the stone and try it for a few razors and this stone is outside your abilities, and you want to return it.. Is that the stones fault ???? is that fair ???

Anyway just some thoughts, and no my "Precious" is not for sale

Good point on the return shipping option. Ideally, the seller of a hone would have learnt it, honed a razor for you on that particular hone so that you can get a taste for its performance and then you buy it.

Too bad about your precious :'(

First, read Glen's signature. It's golden advice.

Second, heed the words of U2, who penned this little ditty specifically about Jnats as finishers:

"I have climbed highest mountains
I have run through the fields
Only to be with you
Only to be with you

I have kissed honey lips
Felt the healing in her fingertips
It burned like fire
This burning desire

But I still haven't found what I'm looking for
No I still haven't found what I'm looking for."

You're not going to get a definitive answer to your question, because all of us Jnaddicts still haven't found what we're looking for. Natural variation sucks, because there may be a Jnat just around the corner that does things just that little bit differently.

The best you are going to get is general advice I'm afraid. So here's mine. Find a reputable seller, get the nicest stone you can afford (with their advice), spend 6 months learning to use the stone correctly. Repeat.

Good luck!

James.

I'm no expert. Not on honing or Jnats. But that being said, I talked to Maksim at JNS and told him my budget. He set me up at first with a Shoboudani type 100 and a set of nagura. After lapping it, I took it for a spin. My fist attempt was a great success. So impressed, I later bought an Ozuku asagi. Its not a big stone, but big enough. Its wide enough to get the entire blade on the stone and do a few x strokes. But its best held in hand. The important thing is that again, the results have been fantastic. Stefan tells me that the person using it and their ability to hone really dictates the outcome. But having read a lot of the mysticism surrounding Jnats I was prepared for disappointment and struggle. I didn't have that problem. I've been very happy with them both. My suggestion is to to talk with Maksim and ask him what he has that will fit your budget and learning curve. He seems to have a good handle on what he has and how it will perform.

Edit: Also, keep in mind the stone does not have to be perfectly shaped or very big. The luxury of those stones is something that someone honing for others may insist on. But you don't necessarily have to have that.