Thread: Current opinions on Zulu Grey and Suehiro 20k? Shapton 30k?

The Zulu gave me really smooth feeling edges. But if you like an edge where hair separates at the mere sight if the razor, the Suehiro will get you there fast. I had mixed results with the Zulu. Sometimes I got a great edge, other times not so much. The one thing that made the Zulu harder to figure out was the fact that it cut so slowly. You never knew if you were maxed out on it or in need of more work. The Suehiro gives great results after 20 or 30 laps…..but the edge is different. In the end, I found that I simply preferred the edges from the two little Jnats that I have over the Zulu. I use them or the Suehiro to finish now. The small Jnats that I have can be difficult to use with blades that have a smile or that require rolling x strokes. So I have the Suehiro for anything that makes the Jnat’s job difficult. But you have to decide what kind of edge you prefer. The Suehiro edge will never require pastes or sprays. If you go that route, you’ll never need those again. But you may prefer a different edge that only a natural can deliver and the Zulu may agree with you more than a synthetic. If you have the time to invest, send two similar razors to someone who has both. Have them finish them on each and see how you like them. But nothing makes the job easier than the Suehiro. Whether it’s the best option for you is debatable but I doubt you will dislike it.

[QUOTE=OCDshaver;1293827The small Jnats that I have can be difficult to use with blades that have a smile or that require rolling x strokes.[/QUOTE]
Could you expand on that please?

jgjgjg,
If you are new to honing, I truly recommend starting out with touching up your razors first. With that being said, I also only recommend a new honer to learn off synthetics first as they are all relatively the same no matter if I come to your house and use your stones or you come to my house and use my stones. Natural stones have a personality just like we do and learning a stones personality isn't something a new honer needs to worry about. A new honer needs to learn how to feel what is going on first, this is the honing foundation we talk about. Naniwa, Norton, and Shapton are the most used hones here. You will get a lot of opinions of which is a preference, but they are all very nice stones and just preference from there. So if you are looking for a quality finisher, my first recommendation would be a Naniwa 12K or Shapton GS 16K. Again, I can't speak for the 20K you mentioned...yet...dang you!

[QUOTE=shooter74743;1294406]jgjgjg,
If you are new to honing, I truly recommend starting out with touching up your razors first. [QUOTE]

That's great advice.

I am relatively new to 1) honing razors and 2) jnats&coticules. I have deep experience honing a dizzying array of edge tools ranging from lathe cutters for inconel to machete's, to woodworking, rubber slicing, and carving tools on both synthetics (esp. Shapton) and natural 'oilstones' of all kinds. About the only thing I haven't experienced are concave blades, and I avoid "bear claw" shaped objects intentionally.

I will observe that razors are farther out on the "niche" and "nitpickiness" scales than any other edge tool I've dealth with. Really, I think the only thing left for me are surgical scalpels, and as far I know those are all disposable now as a matter of industry mandate. I also suspect that any edge suitable for what we do in shaving is probably correct for removing an appendix.

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

Could you expand on that please?

Both stones are small and best used in hand. One of them is short and narrow. I have a hard time getting a large blade (my W&B FBU) on it with enough room to comfortably roll it across the stone. I also find rolling strokes more comfortable when there is a little more length to the hone. I feel I can make gradual changes to the edge contact rather than having to quickly roll from heel to toe in a short distance. It can probably be done but its not very comfortable to do it.

So, the options for the thread are Suehiro 20k, Shapton 30k, and... the Zulu stone? Not Eschers, Charnleys, Jnats but the Zulu? Since when does that mediocre finisher fit in the hall of the greatest finishers? To put it as subtly as possible, and answer your question in the same time, It's a stone with big variations from piece to piece, with the majority of stones being prefinishers. Try something more reliable like man made ones, the Suehiro for example, or for naturals, an Escher. For the same price you can get one of those too.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

So, the options for the thread are Suehiro 20k, Shapton 30k, and... the Zulu stone? Not Eschers, Charnleys, Jnats but the Zulu? Since when does that mediocre finisher fit in the hall of the greatest finishers? To put it as subtly as possible, and answer your question in the same time, It's a stone with big variations from piece to piece, with the majority of stones being prefinishers. Try something more reliable like man made ones, the Suehiro for example, or for naturals, an Escher. For the same price you can get one of those too.

I would disagree with you on "mediocre finisher". I have used the Zulu in many razors and some razor respond very well to it which can stand next to an Escher or Suehiro 20k. I would not call it the best finisher, but definitely a good one IMHO.

The problem with the Zulu, I think, is that it's a relatively new stone and we still experimenting with it to get consistency. My best and most consistent edges (without going to the Shapton glass 16k first) has been to start with a lapped stone on the 325 DMT or 400 Atoma, do some laps (~40-60), then dress the surface with something like a 1200 Atoma do some more laps before going to the other side (lapped on 1200 Atoma then dry sanded with a 1500 paper) an do more laps on water only or smith honing solution. Guarantee that in some razors it will stand to an Escher edge!

Better and most consistent, get a nice edge out of the 16k Shapton glass then to the polished side of the Zulu, with water or smith honing solution.

Also some razors respond well with a very very light slury on the 1200 Atoma dress side.

The Escher is faster and the distinctive buttery feel you don't get out of the Zulu, however to buy an 8x3 turi will cost me 3-5 times as much as the same size Zulu.

I don't want to come as pushing the Zulu, I'm just expressing my option on a stone that I believe has value for someone on a budget or want to deep his toe on a good natural first. Double O

Originally Posted by Double0757

I would disagree with you on "mediocre finisher". I have used the Zulu in many razors and some razor respond very well to it which can stand next to an Escher or Suehiro 20k. I would not call it the best finisher, but definitely a good one IMHO.

The problem with the Zulu, I think, is that it's a relatively new stone and we still experimenting with it to get consistency. My best and most consistent edges (without going to the Shapton glass 16k first) has been to start with a lapped stone on the 325 DMT or 400 Atoma, do some laps (~40-60), then dress the surface with something like a 1200 Atoma do some more laps before going to the other side (lapped on 1200 Atoma then dry sanded with a 1500 paper) an do more laps on water only or smith honing solution. Guarantee that in some razors it will stand to an Escher edge!

Better and most consistent, get a nice edge out of the 16k Shapton glass then to the polished side of the Zulu, with water or smith honing solution.

Also some razors respond well with a very very light slury on the 1200 Atoma dress side.

The Escher is faster and the distinctive buttery feel you don't get out of the Zulu, however to buy an 8x3 turi will cost me 3-5 times as much as the same size Zulu.

I don't want to come as pushing the Zulu, I'm just expressing my option on a stone that I believe has value for someone on a budget or want to deep his toe on a good natural first. Double O

I knew we were going there... Very well, I have tried 4 of them, had plenty of time to test them, and all of them were a disappointment. Yes, they kind of feel better than a norton 8k, but between a Norton 8x3" and a Zulu 8x3" stand about 150$.
You can try a Chinese stone. Or a Welsh one. Good ones from both feel better than a Zulu and cost a fraction of money.
It's not about inconsistent results from the stone. I get consistent results from every stone I have including those. It's about the not keen edge at all I get for a 150$ worth of stone.
Until a few days ago I thought that all of them were awful, but I talked with a friend who had one of the "awesome" ones, and confirmed that there are very few great, and the rest of them, as he bought a second one, and it was like mine... You don't know what you bought until you try it.
Like... the C12k. Which is slow. Like the Zulu. And, gives an edge as good as an Escher. Like the Zulu.
But, hey, a 50$ stone can't possibly compare with a 200$ one, right? You get what you pay for.

The whole hype about the Zulu stone is because, if someone likes it, he'll boast about it in as many opportunities as he'll get. If someone doesn't like it on the other hand, he'll forget that he bought it, it really feels bad that he spend 100+$ on something that doesn't worth it. And maybe if the new guys are lucky, he'll mention it once.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Until a few days ago I thought that all of them were awful, but I talked with a friend who had one of the "awesome" ones, and confirmed that there are very few great, and the rest of them, as he bought a second one, and it was like mine... You don't know what you bought until you try it.

The whole hype about the Zulu stone is because, if someone likes it, he'll boast about it in as many opportunities as he'll get. If someone doesn't like it on the other hand, he'll forget that he bought it, it really feels bad that he spend 100+$ on something that doesn't worth it. And maybe if the new guys are lucky, he'll mention it once.

I have a second coming and would be able to confirm it first hand. I didn't know they where as inconsistent like the Chinesse 12k. Thanks for the info, first time I hear about it! Double O

If for no other reason, I have found that being able to put a very shaveable edge using only my Naniwa progression gives you a standard. It's one thing to send out a razor to get honed up to shave ready so you know what it's like, but then when you start messing with and bring it back down, you've lost your comparison. I know you can keep it aside and do a different razor, but there's something about comparing the edge during experimentation with the same exact blade.

The only reason my fairly recent dive into the naturals hasn't made my head explode is cause I know I can just go back to the naniwas, bring the edge back, and try again. Not having that ability would make it maddening cause once you've lost the edge, it's hard to make comparisons soley from memory going forward.