Thread: Jnat Finishers

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Never seen a Suita that was considered a razor finisher.

Upthread I posted a picture of an Ohira Suita (the gray rectangular one) off of which I have shaved many times.

I believe you 100%. I am surprised that these stones are not included as finishers. My shinden gives me HHt root in or out. And the shave is excellent imo. I was fortunate enough to get one honed by a real ace finished on a suita and it was superb as well. I have 3 suitas and all 3 produce. Maybe I got lucky....

Originally Posted by bill3152

I believe you 100%. I am surprised that these stones are not included as finishers. My shinden gives me HHt root in or out. And the shave is excellent imo. I was fortunate enough to get one honed by a real ace finished on a suita and it was superb as well. I have 3 suitas and all 3 produce. Maybe I got lucky....

I'm not doubting you get good edges & I'm not denigrating any other stones. You can surely get great stones from more than one layer but traditional razor stones are usually selected for their fineness as well as their hardness. That is up to the supplier &/or seller.

HHT &/or a good shave should happen at 8k. Most Awasedo will improve an 8k edge so might be termed 'finishers' but as I hinted before the densest layer will give you those qualities most consistently. Namito & some other layers are deeper than Tenjyo Suita so odds are the consistency will be there for the desired parameters. Hence the more commonly seen Asagi & sometimes Kiita razor hones.

I have missed why hardness is considered to be such a particularly important characteristic for razor sharpening?

Originally Posted by jgjgjg

I have missed why hardness is considered to be such a particularly important characteristic for razor sharpening?

Jnats are fine. All of them are very fine. If they are soft, they shred particles easily, and the surface of the stone does not get burnished, ie. the sharp corners of particles on its surface do not get flatter-rounder. This slurry cuts faster, but leaves a less fine edge. Since we are talking about razor honing, the above are not desirable on finishers.

Thanks, that's great insight!

Its just the nature of the beast... While hardness generally means finer with jnats its not always true. There is hardness and there is fineness These are two different things.

A hard stone will generally produce a fine surface. most soft stones break away the surface before the surface can be fully refined. Most hard stones, due to the slow wear produce a fine, refined surface.

If you can find a stone that is super fine and not super hard it can still produce a nice edge providing it doesn't release too much slurry.

+1. BUT there are many stones that can produce great edges that may not be considered for finishing. For example some asagi or kiita stones are rated as finishers when they are actually softer than some suita stones. And why is a coticule considered a finisher then? The edges off my cotis(I have 3) are very soft yet sharp, although they don't approach the sharpness I get from my suitas. Not knocking cotis now, just saying. And hht root in or out from a suita isn't an indication of the blades ability to cut hair then? I know not everyone uses the hht but I do and compare always to what I get off my stones. So I would rate my sharpness off my suita at a 10 out of 10. Is my asagi or ozuku edge sharper? NO imo. And hardness is important as Vasili said regarding release of particles, yet my suitas don't release particles. So its a slippery slope. My dark blue Escher is also not in the range of my suita in terms of sharp either.

Originally Posted by bill3152

+1. BUT there are many stones that can produce great edges that may not be considered for finishing.
Other factors at play here too, the razor, the honer.
For example some asagi or kiita stones are rated as finishers when they are actually softer than some suita stones.
This is why So from Japan Tool has only sold a handful of Kiita in all his years of supplying stones.
And why is a coticule considered a finisher then? The edges off my cotis(I have 3) are very soft yet sharp, although they don't approach the sharpness I get from my suitas. Not knocking cotis now, just saying.
You've answered your own question Coti edges are generally comfortable.
And hht root in or out from a suita isn't an indication of the blades ability to cut hair then? I know not everyone uses the hht but I do and compare always to what I get off my stones. So I would rate my sharpness off my suita at a 10 out of 10. Is my asagi or ozuku edge sharper? NO imo.
You can pass HHT very early in the progression so it does not make a finisher. It just shows sharpness.
And hardness is important as Vasili said regarding release of particles, yet my suitas don't release particles. So its a slippery slope.
You obviously have exceptionally hard, fine Suita. This, however, does not categorise all Suita as razor hones, hence, as I said before, they are not generally sold as such.
My dark blue Escher is also not in the range of my suita in terms of sharp either.
Bill, I think you're missing the point. Sharp comes long before finishing stage which is more about comfort.

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