Thread: Asano

FWIW, the good hard fine stones that are truly hard, smooth, fine no scratch, etc, and that have a verifiable link back to the nakayama mine have always been expensive, just as it should be.

Originally Posted by DaveW

That was an inaccurate response to what I said. I said I don't like the numbering, which is something that appears to have been made up by the dealers. It's an unnecessary and potentially too precise (vs. reality) system.

I couldn't really be any more indifferent about what you actually buy or have bought.

The other thing I've noticed is a real loosening of the names for stones, in terms of what's called kiita, what's called karasu, and it's fairly obvious that there have been a lot of stones with maruka stamps that certainly didn't start out as maruka.

As far as buying a soft stone to set bevels, there isn't a soft stone that's going to be called "level 2" or whatever that will be good for setting bevels. They are all still stones with small particles and don't cut nearly fast enough to do that. If you want to set bevels, you need to go down the ladder and get something like an iyo nagura or one of the other porous hard stones. If they cut too slow, you slurry them. There really isn't any virtue in stones that are softer than a kiita stone that was truly graded by a miner (and not given this level this or that stuff) as a razor stone. I guess the knife people like them for different finishes, but for razors and tools they don't do much of use. They are not fine, and compared to any stone that is intended to prepare an edge, not fast, either.

There was a time not long ago when stones like that were $100. Now they get stamped and sold to unsuspecting buyers as another variation of an expensive stone for $350. I do have a stone like that. It's a hideriyama stone that sheds particles fast, and the reason that I have it is a seller lied to me about 8 years ago in describing its level of fineness. It cuts an edge about as fine as a tanba aoto, and though it's not quite as soft as a tanba, it isn't really useful for anything.

The other aside from this is that if you're using a razor, it never needs to go down below the last couple of steps, and thus never needs to go to a stone that would have heavy slurry (like a soft stone).

One thing appears to be the case, and that is as the internet has created a demand for natural japanese stones, there is an audience all of the sudden that will buy stones that the longer term users never would have paid anything significant for. The longer term audience included professional users, and that should tell everyone something.

Interesting.
I know little about these stones .
My Shobu has taken my finishing to a new level and i just pray my Nakayama performs .
Its a beautiful thing.
At the moment im creating a flat underside to it, which has about a weeks worth of work left on it.
Then I will lap it and polish it up and finally use it.
Finally I will set it in wood.

Well, buying one of the softer hones to use as a bevel setter will make it so that you know a lot more about them real quick! It just might not be what you want to learn.

Synthetics are hard to beat for the grunt work, and for prepping an edge to be made "good" by natural stones, or the one of the very few synthetics that will make a divinely inspired edge.

I do not use them in general, either, but I am also not restoring razors, either, so I don't have a need to. As much as we like to talk about all of the different hones, a shaver who is not restoring razors can generally use a single good quality finisher for the rest of their life unless they bump the edge of a razor on something. Several years ago, I bought a single vintage hone out of a barber shop (that shouldn't be taken to mean that I don't have any others, that's untrue, I guess I have a dozen or so), and that hone with tomonagura and then diluted to clear water is the only thing my razor ever sees. I am sort of through with bevel setting, but the only stones I ever used that were natural that were nice bevel setters were a progression of novaculite hones, and that only because they are coarse enough to cut fast - at least with the washitas and soft stones (soft being a misnomer, as a soft is harder than the hardest japanese stones and you can push an edge into them and never nick them).

So what are all the different Asano's for?
Don't they act as a progression ?
My thoughts were that I want to use my Jnat for a bit more than just the final finish because its so nice to work with.

Originally Posted by JOB15

So what are all the different Asano's for?
Don't they act as a progression ?
My thoughts were that I want to use my Jnat for a bit more than just the final finish because its so nice to work with.

yes progression, if you stop at 3k you can go botan , mejiro or tenjio.
I find that 6-8k is the optimal starting point for nagura, and I kip the botan.

I suppose they allow you to do coarser work with a finer stone. I don't have anything but a botan nagura, and I don't find much use for it. I might find more use if I were using a kamisori that had a fairly large bevel (wide bevels don't finish as fast).

I suppose also if you only had one stone, they'd be nicer to work with. I have stones from aoto through razor finishers and everything between, and thus less need for nagura progression. I'd rather finish with a progression of stones, in the event I'm setting up a razor.

You, me and other people don't necessarily face the same level of wear that someone honing razors for other people would find, and thus with often honing won't need more than tomonagura and then the stone itself. I also don't like to hone that much on my favorite razors (as in I don't like to hone them more coarsely than needed) - I'd like to have the same razors (non kamisori) in 10 years with relatively little hone wear.

Originally Posted by mainaman

yes progression, if you stop at 3k you can go botan , mejiro or tenjio.
I find that 6-8k is the optimal starting point for nagura, and I kip the botan.

Can I ask how long do you spend on the Jnat with the tomo?
I go for 15 mins but I don't do circles , just strokes.

Originally Posted by JOB15

Can I ask how long do you spend on the Jnat with the tomo?
I go for 15 mins but I don't do circles , just strokes.

This is hard question to answer. It all depends on the hone and the tomonagura, and how prepared the edge is before you get to that stage of the honing.
I typically do two dilutions with tomonagura, I feel that if after those the edge is not there, then work on lower grits is needed.