Thread: Hard Arkansas

A good way but not a foolproof way to tell if your translucent or black arkie is ready for razors is be its reflectivity. I usually don't stop breaking it in till I can hold it flat and see detailed reflection off of the surface of the stone. Like crystal clear kind and that's with it being dry no oil or water on it. Once it gets to that point then I will hone a razor on it and shave test. If it's good then I know I'm done if it's not then I go back to using a heavy large chisel on it and see if I can get it any finer. I personally use an old masonry chisel and lots of pressure and set work it till my wrist hurt and wash off the oil and dry it then check reflectivity. Again this is not foolproof some stones get reflective pretty quickly. Another way is by touch. My best arkie feels like really smooth glass to the touch.

Yes, I have a couple of soft Arkies. I have a few knife blades with no handles, so could start thinning the tangs. I will take any and all ideas and decide which ones to try.

Originally Posted by OldTraf

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, you'll know that the ark is ready to use on razors when it does a good job honing them. When it's not settled in enough, you'll get a harsh edge and not very good polish. A fully settled in ark stone will put a bright polish on a razor, even with pressure.

As far as reprofiling edges on hatchets, if there is a lot of heavy work, it's customarily done with a grinding wheel, then the moderate work is done with files (and if the file quality is good, you can get a finish edge with it), followed by carborundum or india axe stones (that are in the 220-320 grit range).

Thanks. Kind of figured the first, just didn't want to use my face as a hone. I did that with a Dovo Best Quality 6/8 that was sold as shave ready. Used a CrOx strop vigorously then linen and latigo until it shaved well.

As far as the hatchet goes, it is a test case using hand tools starting with a big a$$ Pferd chipbreaker, working through a corundum stone, etc. I want to see what it will entail. I have grinders, but don't want to ruin temper etc. It will give me a platform to break in the Arkies. I have used them on knives, but assiduously cleaned and swarf. Won't do that again.

When I get old axes, which I don't do too often, but sometimes (old axes have some geometry that new axes don't - most notably a bulge in their cheek that makes them easier to release from wood, a subtlety that's not easy to duplicate in a drop forge), I usually use a 60 grit belt (which avoids too much heat) at fairly low speed, then files and then stones. I keep a spray bottle at the belt sander and spray it on the axe from time to time to see how much it steams. Axes are usually just above spring temperature, and are probably tempered around 500-600 degrees, so you have some wiggle room.

That said, if you have a good US or european made mill file, it's really enjoyable to use draw filing across the edge. Easy to cause problems with fingers, though, if you don't wear gloves while doing it.

In my experience, knives that are not that hard, etc, don't take as good of a polish off of an ark stone because the abrasive (even on a settled in stone) can cut deep. As the steel approaches high 50s hardness, a stone that will roll a burr on a soft pocket knife will instead put on a bright polish. I usually use my stones in the shop for a little while after lapping them, then when they no longer raise much of a wire edge on a chisel and put a bright polish on the back, they're ready to go. A freshly lapped or diamond cut stone can be extremely aggressive, especially some of the fresh cut stones. I'll bet some of the cutters (most notably natural whetstone) have gotten stones back from users put off by how coarse their dark gray translucent cuts at first, despite the fact that they are excellent stones.

Dan's gets complaints on the flip side of that, where people send back soft arkansas stones because they use the same lapping process on all of their stones, and it puts the soft arks to sleep (makes for nice trans and black stones, though).

I learned to sharpen and hone on the Arkies in 1980. There was no catalogs with razor hones and no internet then. It was yellow pages and white pages. If your town did not have it you were out of luck. I have some experience with these stones. Use your eyes if you don't see any imperfections on your stone new or old. Then use your thumb nail in a reverse manner. Draw your nail toward you while holding the stone out in front of you. Your nail will pick up on any marks you eyes can't see. Then if that goes well wash the stone!!!!! Then lick it. Do both your black and translucent that way if you have both. If your tongue fails to pick up any imperfections. Start using those stones. The stone that felt the smoothest on your tongue use with no pressure until the blade of your razor sticks into your thumb nail with ease. Then a very good barber hones will really put icing on the cake. A couple of no pressure passes on the barber hone and then the thumb nail again. Just to make sure you did not botch something up. I don't know much about other stones I only own Arkies, but I have a gut feeling you are not going to go wrong with the Arkansas stone.

So, I ordered a hard black from Dan's, and a translucent black(grey) from natural whetstone.. Just got the translucent black.. Here's the information sheet provided:

Skipping their five step instruction on how to sharpen a knife, they list how to select the right stone..

Silicon carbide(very coarse)
man made

washita or soft arkansas(coarse)
for preliminary honing

hard arkansas or aluminum oxide(fine)
popular finishing stone

surgical Arkansas(fine)
excellent finishing stone

black Arkansas (extra fine)
finest finishing stone


So I was told above that a translucent black should be treated like a translucent.. And that a black hard may shed the odd large particle or anomaly.. So both Dan's and NW agree that the black hard ark is the finest.. I could be wrong but I dont think either use the term surgical in grading their stones.. And NWs list doesnt mention translucents..

That being said nw was mostly flat and when I said I was using it for razors and asked for one face to be truly flat and one set of edges to be chamfered/rounded they seemed to polish a portion of the rough surface smooth, and I'm not sure if in rounding the edges they brought the surface more out of flat..

Get some loose lapping grit and plenty of time and elbow grease.. Lapping grit is cheap and your time is worth to you what you decide it is... If you only want it for razors, not woodworking tools, and your time isn't cheap or yout don't enjoy lapping stones, just get Dan's hard black.. That said: I'm still waiting for my Dan's to show up..

Okay, having worked my way from 5 micron (approx 3k) down to 80 grit SiC, the initial surface is rougher than 80 grit, so feel free to start there.. Also, the unpolished side in my case seems to be flatter than the side with one portion polished.. I will try to keep you guys updated as I go..

Man, this thread has me wishing I had picked up Arkansas stones rather than water hones. I had a suspicion that black Arkies would do serious work. I've got a few that were my grandfather's. They're smooth as glass, and the knives he was always running over them were sharp enough to pass the HHT. I just didn't realize you could get them in 8 x 3 dimensions, all his were 4 or 5 x 1.5. Maybe I'll dig one of the flatter ones out and do a little experiment this weekend...

You can even get them in 10 X 3 if you want them larger.


Mike

Yep, I have a 10" er. You can get them even larger actually, but it gets VERY expensive real quick. The longer the better for finer stones, IMO, that way you have to do less laps. Arks are outstanding at razor finishing when properly prepped, but don't expect the same stone surface to "do serious work" as far as steel removal. There ain't no way in hell it will do both on the same surface. You can get around that by lapping opposite sides to different coarseness but a fine hard Ark will never quickly remove steel for long as even when lapped with very coarse grit will still settle in and cutting speed will drop off PDQ as finish quality continues to climb.

When I said that, I was referring specifically to the polish they'll put on the edge. It goes without saying you'll need coarser stones for operations that require removing material. I got 2 of the flatter stones that were lying around lapped smooth and flat. I'll be finishing the prep work as soon as I get to the store to pick up some wet or dry sand paper so I can bring those old stones back to life.