Thread: Hard Arkansas

It's all about the prep. That stone has probably seen years of steel and been well taken care of.

So it is glass smooth and ready to finish a razor.

Kind of like worn wet and dry, it may be 1k grit but will finish like 1500, who cares what the grit is?

Originally Posted by Euclid440

It's all about the prep. That stone has probably seen years of steel and been well taken care of.

So it is glass smooth and ready to finish a razor.

Kind of like worn wet and dry, it may be 1k grit but will finish like 1500, who cares what the grit is?

Just trying to put a place for a stone like this in my head...so is it a finisher, like an Escher of Nani...or somewhere down the line....didn't quite understand your response, glass smooth I understand, but you lost me on the worn wet and dry part. Could you expand a little....

Both Martin and Marty are correct Phrank. When it comes to hones, naturals in particular but also many Barber hones, it's not the size of the grit that matters but rather the Density of the grit. The "Fine" Arkansas stones like the translucent are rated quite low in grit size, BUT they are extremely dense and hard! As are most 'dense Novaculite' hones, like the harder LI's or CF's from England for example.

They will produce a highly polished edge but they do require many laps to get the desired results...similar to your harder Zulus or Chinese stones. I have a very nice vintage Norton translucent that performs wonderfully but requires about 150+++ laps to get the job done. Most folks prefer to use oil...I use water and dish soap on mine.

Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

Both Martin and Marty are correct Phrank. When it comes to hones, naturals in particular but also many Barber hones, it's not the size of the grit that matters but rather the Density of the grit. The "Fine" Arkansas stones like the translucent are rated quite low in grit size, BUT they are extremely dense and hard! As are most 'dense Novaculite' hones, like the harder LI's or CF's from England for example.

They will produce a highly polished edge but they do require many laps to get the desired results...similar to your harder Zulus or Chinese stones. I have a very nice vintage Norton translucent that performs wonderfully but requires about 150+++ laps to get the job done. Most folks prefer to use oil...I use water and dish soap on mine.

OK - thanks...so last stupid question...where would a stone like this fit into a honing progression? Reason I ask is there is one similar in an old shop not far from here...

Originally Posted by Phrank

OK - thanks...so last stupid question...where would a stone like this fit into a honing progression? Reason I ask is there is one similar in an old shop not far from here...

Finisher= last stone.

It is definitely a finisher and the last stone in a progression. I like the shave straight off a fine ark stone. It is a different edge, crisp and keen but not diamond harsh or uncomfortable.

Stropping on leather or a bit of Cerium will smooth it out some, but not lose the crisp feel. Nothing like a synthetic feel.

What is interesting about these stones and stones like them, Charnley Forest, even a good hard Chinese and other hard naturals, is while the grit rating may be conventionally low, stone prep and lubricants, water, soap, and oil can affect/enhance the finish on a razor. I use Smith’s and water.

A fine Ark will produce a hazy Kazumi bevel making grit rating comparison impossible.

It can be a fine razor stone that produces a unique edge. Which is probably why they have retained a following all these years.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

It is definitely a finisher and the last stone in a progression. I like the shave straight off a fine ark stone. It is a different edge, crisp and keen but not diamond harsh or uncomfortable.

Stropping on leather or a bit of Cerium will smooth it out some, but not lose the crisp feel. Nothing like a synthetic feel.

What is interesting about these stones and stones like them, Charnley Forest, even a good hard Chinese and other hard naturals, is while the grit rating may be conventionally low, stone prep and lubricants, water, soap, and oil can affect/enhance the finish on a razor. I use Smith’s and water.

A fine Ark will produce a hazy Kazumi bevel making grit rating comparison impossible.

It can be a fine razor stone that produces a unique edge. Which is probably why they have retained a following all these years.

+1...Good to see you back in the mix Marty. Hope all is going well with you...

What was meant by "worn wet and dry" (if you have not already figured it out) is the cutting action of a used up piece of "wet/dry" sand paper. When its fresh and new, its has a lot of "bite" to it, but as you use it more and more, it no longer cuts as quickly, or as deeply. Best way I know of to describe it, would be to picture a bundle of a dozen sharp pencils pointy side up. This would be "new paper" as you use the pencils the pointy end wears down more and more until you would eventually achieve points that are softened, rounded, or possibly even as flat as they were before they were sharpened. Its still the same 12 pencils, made of the same graphite in a wood matrix, but now the points don't make such a fine line.
In essence, this is the exact same thing that happens to the surface of an Ark stone. freshly lapped has many exposed points. as you use it, the points wear down.

It is a final final finisher or polisher if you will...depending on your hone progression set-up it would follow your 8K-12K for a really finely polished edge. HOWEVER...if you have an Escher (Particularly for folks like you and me that like the old Sheffield steel!) that would be all you ever need. Although I have finished many a blade on the Arkie, many Sheffield's included, I prefer the much softer feel of the Escher. Even if I put a wicked sharp edge on a blade with an Arkie or a JNAT, I will always finish up with a few strokes on the Escher to soften the feel of the edge...using only water of course.

This is as always MHO!

Originally Posted by Phrank

Just trying to put a place for a stone like this in my head...so is it a finisher, like an Escher of Nani...or somewhere down the line....didn't quite understand your response, glass smooth I understand, but you lost me on the worn wet and dry part. Could you expand a little....

Phrank, I used to work in the auto body trade and we used a lot of wet and dry sandpaper. As a sandpaper wears, it losses it's cutting power as the particles 'wear down' and slowly become less efficient. So in effect it slowly goes up in grits. What was a 220 slowly works it's way to perhaps a 400-600. When I found that the paper wasn't cutting, I'd change paper with the exception of when sanding for final prep before painting and then I'd use it until it was almost useless.

I hope this makes sense.

Sorry I was late to the party with my explanation.