Thread: How sharp is sharp?

I have found some razors to take an edge that clears my face better than the average Injector, DE, or SE. Can I get that edge every time?...I am getting better at it!

One of the mentors did a "get it sharper" over a month or so of a few more laps every day on a fine stone. He started taking the tops off the cells in his skin. Yes, there is a point that is too sharp for anything but laboratory use as microtomes.

Sharp is formed at the lower grit stones, all later stones do is polish the bevel of that sharpness and make a smoother edge.
YMMV
~Richard

Do you want to Hone your skills? Now that you are getting consistent edges, go back and simplify your routine. Use the fewest stones and steps and try to repeat the edges you are getting now. Refine your routine to the least common denominator and determine what is and isn't working because right now you are using a "shot gun" approach to honing, try to get it down to a "sniper rifle" and identify only those stones and steps needed to achieve the results you want.

Originally Posted by Geezer

Sharp is formed at the lower grit stones, all later stones do is polish the bevel of that sharpness and make a smoother edge.
YMMV
~Richard

Yeppers I agree

Originally Posted by Geezer

Sharp is formed at the lower grit stones, all later stones do is polish the bevel of that sharpness and make a smoother edge.
YMMV
~Richard

Wiser words have not been spoken. I think it was Glen years ago if not mistaken, that said 90% or honing is done in the bevel setting stage. For those who want to buy a hone for "touch ups only", you are missing the real pleasure of working with razors and hones, bevel setting is 90% of the fun and 90% of the duty too and when it becomes second nature with you hands the real joy is just ahead.

Alx

“Does anyone know if it is possible to reach a point where a razor is so sharp that it can get no sharper and if so, is there some way of determining when that point has been reached?”

Yes, there is a point. The problem is it is different for each of us, your razor, equipment (stones, paste, and strop), ability, experience, your face and beard.

There is no definitive bench mark for max sharp, because of all the variables.

As your shaving, honing and stropping experience increases so will your edges.

Do not become obsessed with Max sharpness, the trick is sharp and smooth, concentrate on a good comfortable shave.

I currently have about 40 razors in rotation, they all shave just a little differently, if they didn’t, I would only need one…. Ha, Ha.

I'm not chasing an edge beyond where it feels good to me. I began with the pyramid method and stuck with it for years. I recall talking to an experienced honemiester who told me,"you know you don't need to do that, once you know how to hone, you can just use a progression." All well and good, but I didn't know how to hone without the pyramid method, and that worked. Sham's admonition of knowing when to stop was the problem at that point in my honing.

Doing it by the numbers, then shave testing, was working for me. At some point I got to where I could do a progression and get there. Probably doing more strokes than I needed, but I could do it either way, with the pyramid, or progression. Then Lynn came along with the circles combined with x strokes, which is also by the numbers, and I began picking that method up. That is what I'm doing nowadays.

Four or five years ago I had a custom made with ATS-34. I had a hell of a time getting that razor to what I like as shave ready. Might have been the heat treat, maybe ATS-34 is more abrasion resistant than other stainless steels ? Whatever it was I had to resort to diamond plates to set the bevel and then went through a progression (pyramid) with Shapton Pros all the way up to 30K. That razor got so sharp by the time I got done that you touched it to your cheek with any pressure/carelessness and you were cut. That is probably the sharpest I ever got a razor. Very like a Feather DE blade and I'll never deliberately do that again.

For those of us who get into honing in a serious way I think we are ego driven to get 'good.' Many of us say,' I ain't a honemiester BUT ........ IOW, we qualify it but deep down I think most serious honers want to achieve that skill level, even if they don't do commercial honing. The pursuit of excellence. That is why many of the same people are getting hone after hone, chasing that possibility that another arrow in the quiver will make a positive difference. I'm awfully philosophical this afternoon ....... what was the original question again .....

Originally Posted by Geezer

One of the mentors did a "get it sharper" over a month or so of a few more laps every day on a fine stone. He started taking the tops off the cells in his skin. Yes, there is a point that is too sharp for anything but laboratory use as microtomes.

That's interesting. I wonder if he took the edge beyond it's optimum ie it started to degrade & roughen up a little.
Personally I think exfoliation is great as long as no blood is involved .

Posted by JimmyHAD
"I'm not chasing an edge beyond where it feels good to me. I began with the pyramid method and stuck with it for years. I recall talking to an experienced honemiester who told me,"you know you don't need to do that, once you know how to hone, you can just use a progression." All well and good, but I didn't know how to hone without the pyramid method, and that worked. Sham's admonition of knowing when to stop was the problem at that point in my honing.

Doing it by the numbers, then shave testing, was working for me. At some point I got to where I could do a progression and get there. Probably doing more strokes than I needed, but I could do it either way, with the pyramid, or progression. Then Lynn came along with the circles combined with x strokes, which is also by the numbers, and I began picking that method up. That is what I'm doing nowadays.

Four or five years ago I had a custom made with ATS-34. I had a hell of a time getting that razor to what I like as shave ready. Might have been the heat treat, maybe ATS-34 is more abrasion resistant than other stainless steels ? Whatever it was I had to resort to diamond plates to set the bevel and then went through a progression (pyramid) with Shapton Pros all the way up to 30K. That razor got so sharp by the time I got done that you touched it to your cheek with any pressure/carelessness and you were cut. That is probably the sharpest I ever got a razor. Very like a Feather DE blade and I'll never deliberately do that again.

For those of us who get into honing in a serious way I think we are ego driven to get 'good.' Many of us say,' I ain't a honemiester BUT ........ IOW, we qualify it but deep down I think most serious honers want to achieve that skill level, even if they don't do commercial honing. The pursuit of excellence. That is why many of the same people are getting hone after hone, chasing that possibility that another arrow in the quiver will make a positive difference. I'm awfully philosophical this afternoon ....... what was the original question again ..... "

Haha. If you look through the thread you'll find a lot of people probably asking themselves that question! My original question was; 'Is there a point past which you can no longer get a razor sharper and if so how can you tell?'. I asked, not because I'm having trouble sharpening razors, I'm a metal working tradesman and knowing the science behind the process is of interest to me. Onimaru55 and Iceni gave the most pertinent answers, although I have found some of the other posts very useful. Euclid440 mentioned my large jump in grit size from 12000 stone to 0.3 micron pasted strop, which got me thinking. I pulled my three strops (0.3, 0.1 and straight leather) out last night and did 200 laps on the first two to make up for jump and 100 on leather on my favorite razor (11/16 Red Point ) and WOW! smoothest shave I've ever had. I only needed one pass to get BBS. I started to soap up for the second, but my remaining facial hair retreated in fear
* Can someone please tell me how I reply directly to someone's post. I did this one manually.

Look at the persons post who you want to reply directly to and in the bottom right corner of their post you will see a button "Reply With Quote". Tap that and it will open a box with their post already copied and within quotations. You can then type your reply before or after their quoted post. Hope this helps.

There obviously should be a point past which you can't make a razor any sharper. I would bet for most people that before you reached that point the razor would become uncomfortable to shave with. So really it does not matter if you can eke out the last bit of sharpness from a blade or not because it probably would not be usable.

I think Jimmy alluded to it in his post when he said "That razor got so sharp by the time I got done that you touched it to your cheek with any pressure/carelessness and you were cut. That is probably the sharpest I ever got a razor. Very like a Feather DE blade and I'll never deliberately do that again." To me that is way past the sharp you need for a smooth comfortable shave.

At the bottom of the post you want to quote there is a reply with quote option if that is what you mean.

Bob