Thread: BBW as a one-hone?

I agree with Glen. However, like Phoenix51 I also use my BBW for knives - leather cutting knives, that is. The reasons are twofold:

1. It is hard enough to withstand abuse from small pointy blades, half-round and large curved ones, and more to the point

2. It is covered with little yellow dots, coti dots, and is really fast and fairly fine.

As for shaving off it, the edge is so-so, good enough but no wow-factor. My other hones do the job much better with regards shaving rather than knife maintaining, where the edge (for my needs - cutting and grooving leather) has to be 'stout' rather than frail and refined.

Regards,
Neil

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

As for shaving off it, the edge is so-so, good enough but no wow-factor. My other hones do the job much better with regards shaving rather than knife maintaining, where the edge (for my needs - cutting and grooving leather) has to be 'stout' rather than frail and refined.

Regards,
Neil

That is exactly the crux with any so-so stone. You can push and push to get something out of it, but at the very best, it might approach what a better stone does very easily and quickly. My experience with BBWs, and in fact most coticules in general, is that they set bevels more slowly than a proper bevel setting stone, and they finish less nicely than other established natural stones and need help from a good linen. At their price, I don't see the point - unless it's personal challenge. They are very pretty stones, though. I still have two that I just like to look at, and they do make comfortable shaves, but there are other stones that make comfortable and sharper shaves.

I guess what glen and others are saying (I am, too), is that you can do the same thing with all stones. Some stones are harsher than others on slurry, but if you have any hone that's based on silica or something fairly soft (and garnets aren't too hard compared to something like diamond or even aluminum oxide), then you can wear the abrasive dull and bring up a polish as long as the hone is hard enough to stop releasing particles once you've gone to clear water.

I am also a natural stone only person. I've got a deep rock coticule that's aggressive and great for bevel setters. I also have a huge super hard finisher that disburden sent me (well, after I paid him for it - super hard meaning it will glaze over and not release particles) that finishes better than any coticule I've seen, but it's too slow for bevel setting and you lose that super finishing action if you agitate it because it's so hard.

I had coticules between those two, but...well, they just seemed mediocre. the fast deep rock coticule is just absolutely abrasive dense, and it's hard, too - I'm sure it would eventually go to a nice finisher if I let it settle in. It'd far better suited to barber hone type use, where you just thin the edge a little bit but don't overwork it.

And on a razor I'm maintaining, I *hate* to see any gray or black in the slurry, unless I don't care about the longevity of the razor. That's just a personal irk because I have a single favorite razor that I have never seen a second of, and I am as stingy with its steel as I can be.

I use powders only when I sell a razor.

Anyway, aside from the eschers from the eschers and finest japanese finishers, most natural stones have fairly large particles, and you can learn what they like for speed. The nice thing about a coti vs. a phig is you can at least see from the color of the swarf if you're making good time on a bevel set.

If you are looking for a natural to maintain a edge why not a thuringian. Or a jnat, like a $70 type 100 asagi and a tomo? IMO they would be much better than a Cnat.

I have played with all the BBW on all my coticules and never really found them good for much on razors. Especially when there's a coticule layer on the other side that is much faster and finer cutting. I say this with one exception, I have a 5x1.25 coticule that has lightening fast BBW on it. It sets bevels as fast if not faster than my coticules.

I'm a natural stones only guy also, I just find synthetics to be boring, I like the challenge of learning a stone and mastering it's full potential.

Back on topic. I agree with everyone else, there are much better ways to maintain a razor than BBW. Some cheap, some pricey.

Synthetic-stone people withstanding... There are quite a few people that believe Coticule stones produce a decent shave-ready edge.

Do people beleive that there is little truth to the study done by Coticles.be that showed that, with blind testing, that using a BBW stone produces a shave-ready edge comparable to the Coticle?

Originally Posted by SpikedLemon

...Do people beleive that there is little truth to the study done by Coticles.be that showed that, with blind testing, that using a BBW stone produces a shave-ready edge comparable to the Coticle?...

That's a loaded question, though, isn't it? Kind of like asking a room full of christians if they believe in God and his teachings (might have a problem with Father Dougal from Craggy Island, though...).

I know that Bart often said that using a BBW for a few strokes after full finishing on a coti produced a 'brisker, more engaging' edge - purely because it knocked some of the smoothness (aka roundedness or what I like to call 'mushiness') off the edge.

Anyway, coticule.be is long defunct and the site it gave rise too has gone that way too - fickle lot, those coti practitioners...

Regards,
Neil

Yes, Neil, it was a loaded question. I was disappointed that most of the responses came off as a platform to promote their own kit rather than respond to the question I posed.

You had originally responded that you felt it gave you a "so-so" edge. But you sound to have many other honing stones in your arsenal to compare. I may get to that point over the years...

Originally Posted by SpikedLemon

Yet many websites list it as a 4000-grit equivalent stone - as though they intentionally want to sway opinion away from it.

The information putting BBWs in the 4k range predates the information about using them as a finishing stone, and was presented by the same group of people until they decided to represent the BBW as a finishing stone.

Much of the "scientific" data at coticule.be was highly suspect ...

Well guy's,

I hate to be the one descanter among us, but I have had some blindingly keen edges from my cotis easily as keen as my Jnat L5 or nani 12K, even crox. To me its a smoother edge escheresque. I'll admit I do have to flirt with the stone a bit, but to me this is how you get good at honing and it's more fun. I've used coticules that weren't very good at all, but even these can be coaxed a bit with lather or hard soap rubbed into the surface. I sometimes come back to the coti after other hone treatment to kill the crispness. When you get them right, I feel the coticule edge is amongst the best out there. These are the kindest edges on my skin.

Respect
Joe