I've been at this a lil while no expert by any means at all.. I can get an edge to where I like it..I struggled in this journey like most of you. Now I'm even able to,get a nice edge off a jnat..had great teachers they know who they are.. I'm now using chosera 1k 3k 5k and then suehiros 10 to 20 k.. Let me just say IMO the edge is fantastic and it's consistent and it just works every time.. It's so close to the jnat feeling without all the trial and error.. I'm in love with these hones.. If you can borrow them or try them out from someone that has em do it.. I would love to hear your feedback..what exactly your doing on the 20k and are you using pastes leather linen etc..