Thread: Recommended set of honing stones

Hi everyone

I am ideally looking for a set of natural waterstones from the british isles, which will cover all my needs.

I have my reasons for using all natural stones, and would like to stick to this if possible. Having done a bit of reading I can see that British production is the issue these days, so I'm willing to compromise on that.

I'm looking to set a bevel and hone a scythe, a sickle, possibly a push mower, a straight razor, fishing knife, and chisels

May be asking a bit much, but let' see where we end up

At least if someone could recommend some grits for the above purposes

Thanks in advance

To my knowledge there is no complete British set of hones.

UK stones tend to be available from about 4-5K to 15K+. Lower than 4K there isn't anything that was used historically.

The old method to begin to sharpen was to file or sand sharpen the edge, Then work with a finer grit stone until you had a fully set edge. It's why there was a massive demand for the Arkansas stones when they became available, Since they have bevel setters all the way up to finishing stones. Steel is far harder than iron as well so stones that were used for say Viking or roman blades tend to be very slow on steel.


If I were to pick a stone to work on all those blade types then it would be an impossible task. They all have different needs.

The scythe and sickle should be set with a nice Carborundum oval whetstone. There cheap as chips on ebay.

The fishing knife, and chisel can also use the same stones, Finishing at about 2-4K grit.

The razor needs to go much higher 8K at the lowest.


The push mower I would probably use a long file on, The bed knife doesn't need to be perfect just straight with a reasonable edge, A bit more meat on that edge will stop stone damage. So perhaps a single underside bevel and leave the top flat so it sits well on the blade. The cutting action for those mowers is 3 fold. You have the edge cutting of the bed knife, The distance between the bed knife and the blade to snip, and the angle of the blade to provide shear against the bed knife. In most mowers I have looked at the bed knife while blunt still works, but a damaged blade gives far more problems.


If your dead set on UK based stones then your only option is vintage. I know of no UK manufacturers producing stone today for sharpening.

If you want a full natural set out of the ground then the only option is Arkansas stone. It's the only complete natural stone set. It's from the USA, but rest assured it was the stone of choice ever since it was discovered right until it was replaced with carborundum.

Dans whetstones has a full selection of grades and how those grades work.

Arkansas sharpening stones, flintknapping, sandstone coasters, knife sharpening

The 8x1x1/4 4 stone set here would be fine for most of your needs, There a little narrow for razors, and may suffer from ovaling on the scythes tho.

EZ Hones

If your dead set on UK only stones then I would look at the 3 slate pack on ebay. It's not very well regarded for razors, and is slow to remove metal.

For a uk razor finisher you have more options, Charnley forest, LI, Tam o shanter, Dalmore blue ect. The highest regarded stones still fall out of UK waters. A nice all rounder would be Belgian Coticule. It's located not far over the pond and can be used from bevel set to finish if you put the effort into learning the stone.

http://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en/

I am very grateful for your response. Been doing a bit of background research in the mean time

Can I ask a few more questions if you've a moment:

1) What sort of British stones would the Vikings and Romans used then to sharpen swords?

2)And what is sand sharpening? I just heard another person mention sandstone as a honing tool, and also using a wooden strickle dipped in grease and sand (I guess this acts like a bit of sandpaper)

3)Where can I find out more about these older techniques prior to the Arkansas?

4)You say there is nothing available lower than 4k in the UK, so then how did the Roman slaves sharpen the razors for their masters?

5)What did they used to use to sharpen scythes before the modern Carborundum stones became available? They must have been using something else for centuries.

6)You say the razor needs min 8k. Presumably this is for finishing. I have seen people talk of 1000 for setting the bevel.

7) 3 slate pack on Ebay I couldn't find. I typed it in the search bar

8) Are there any training courses on razor sharpening the UK. I'd rather watch someone first hand than spend hours with youtube videos and books


Thanks again

Originally Posted by Iceni

To my knowledge there is no complete British set of hones.

UK stones tend to be available from about 4-5K to 15K+. Lower than 4K there isn't anything that was used historically.

The old method to begin to sharpen was to file or sand sharpen the edge, Then work with a finer grit stone until you had a fully set edge. It's why there was a massive demand for the Arkansas stones when they became available, Since they have bevel setters all the way up to finishing stones. Steel is far harder than iron as well so stones that were used for say Viking or roman blades tend to be very slow on steel.


If I were to pick a stone to work on all those blade types then it would be an impossible task. They all have different needs.

The scythe and sickle should be set with a nice Carborundum oval whetstone. There cheap as chips on ebay.

The fishing knife, and chisel can also use the same stones, Finishing at about 2-4K grit.

The razor needs to go much higher 8K at the lowest.


The push mower I would probably use a long file on, The bed knife doesn't need to be perfect just straight with a reasonable edge, A bit more meat on that edge will stop stone damage. So perhaps a single underside bevel and leave the top flat so it sits well on the blade. The cutting action for those mowers is 3 fold. You have the edge cutting of the bed knife, The distance between the bed knife and the blade to snip, and the angle of the blade to provide shear against the bed knife. In most mowers I have looked at the bed knife while blunt still works, but a damaged blade gives far more problems.


If your dead set on UK based stones then your only option is vintage. I know of no UK manufacturers producing stone today for sharpening.

If you want a full natural set out of the ground then the only option is Arkansas stone. It's the only complete natural stone set. It's from the USA, but rest assured it was the stone of choice ever since it was discovered right until it was replaced with carborundum.

Dans whetstones has a full selection of grades and how those grades work.

Arkansas sharpening stones, flintknapping, sandstone coasters, knife sharpening

The 8x1x1/4 4 stone set here would be fine for most of your needs, There a little narrow for razors, and may suffer from ovaling on the scythes tho.

EZ Hones

If your dead set on UK only stones then I would look at the 3 slate pack on ebay. It's not very well regarded for razors, and is slow to remove metal.

For a uk razor finisher you have more options, Charnley forest, LI, Tam o shanter, Dalmore blue ect. The highest regarded stones still fall out of UK waters. A nice all rounder would be Belgian Coticule. It's located not far over the pond and can be used from bevel set to finish if you put the effort into learning the stone.

http://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en/

Most of the post above is actually a lie.

It's not a malicious lie, Just one to try get you to buy graded stone rather than going the DIY route.


Sandstone can be used as a hone. And provided it's the correct grade of sandstone it will work. The problem is no company currently markets a sandstone hone. Synthetics at the same grit rating have far more advantages. You can set the binder strength, Grit size, Grit hardness, and how fast the stone sheds it's grit.

The less accurate you need the grind the less these flaws cause problems. On a scythe a hone that rips the steel a bit and leaves a course uneven edge is not a problem. On a razor it is.

Since there are no stones been quarried for this purpose the only option is either finding old ones (you will find most are carbonundun since the sandstone ones were thrown away). Or you have to go find and cut it yourself. This can mean either going and gathering rock, or buying paving/construction/gravestone materials and cutting it to size.

There is a thread here for the rockhounds.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ver-there.html

And this is a good starting read.

bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info%2020m/grinding_and_honing_part_3.pdf



The sand sharpening method is identical to all loose grit sharpening methods. You take a flat hard surface, Add your loose grit dry, Add water then hone. It's a common enough system both for lapping stones and steel. And is often used when your working something that needs to be flat. The modern method to do this uses silicone carbide grit because its harder than sand and does not break down as fast. But sand can still be used in the same way. It's a slow system but grants you a lot of control and the grit will naturally break down to a higher grit rating as you work.


Vikings loved a stone called Eidsborg schist. It's mentioned in the PDF above. And was exported throughout the viking world. Romans would use whatever is to hand. There are roman sites in England that are dedicated to the production of both whetstone and quern/grit stones for milling grain. Often stones that are found in burials have no significance in the roman empire other than it was a rock that someone found that worked. Other times you see reports of trading of exceptional stone across the empire. A good example of a traded stone is Coticule.

Hard millstone grits are found across England and would work as both corn mills and metal grinding stones. It would only be the most consistent stone that was used on metal, And the rough edge would work and need constant reworking on a smaller hand stone as the weapon was used. Swords generally don't have a razor edge, They have a sharp stocky edge that can take impact better and is less likely to deform under a hit. Looking in a rocky river bed your likely to find stones that would fulfill the role needed to reshape and remove any big burs on a blade. Purple Phylite stone is a good contender for this. It's that purple stone with the quartz lines that you find in most river beds. A long river smoothed rock would be an ideal carry stone to work your sword edge.



Roman razors are a different animal to modern ones the shape of them is very different. The honing would have been much the same. A progression of fine grit stones on water or oil. And a good stropping. Fine grit stones for a razor edge are far more common than you would think, and a stone that can produce a shaveable edge is not that uncommon. The big difference would be the edge retention of the steel. I would imaging a roman razor would need honing every shave, If not require multiple razors per shave. The Romans also had time and slaves on their side, The speed of metal removal is irrelevant when someone else is doing the work. The razors I have seen also have a different grind to a modern razor, combine that with a softer steel and a nice 4K stone is a bevel setter. It's similar to working mild steel rather than carbon steel, Because the metal is softer the hone can be finer and still work fast.



Modern razors,

You set a bevel normally at 1000 grit. The set bevel is responsible for the angle of the edge and for making the edge straight, and in that respect is the most important part of the honing process. Naturals for doing this need to be consistent. If your stone sheds grit or has rougher spots that is translated directly to the edge, and it can take a long time to correct a deeply scratched or uneven bevel on the higher grit stones.

From a well set bevel you can move almost directly to natural stones. As stones get finer grit they get better grit binding and become more consistent. Dalmore blue might be a good natural to look into for this step. You then work progressively finer stones. At 8K you have a transition from actually removing metal, to polishing the edge. This polishing increases smoothness not sharpness. So a well polished edge should be uniform and smooth, and that in shave terms means the razor glides and cuts hair without tugging or creating irritation. UK naturals are more than capable of been able to produce a world class polished bevel. You only have to look at the reputation for the charnley forest stone, Or Silkstone.


The very best videos are done by 2 forum members.

Lynn Abrams, And GSsixgun. They have slightly different styles, I believe GSsixgun uses a modified variant of Lynn's system.

https://www.youtube.com/user/LynnSAbrams

https://www.youtube.com/user/gssixgun


Welsh slate 3 pack.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WELSH-SLAT...item27e8f414df

I might humbly add you may save a lot of money and time for tools and knives buying something like a Work Sharp Knife and Tool sharpening system and stones dedicated to razors only.

YMMV and Have fun!