Thread: Is this good advice?

Originally Posted by Straightandproud

In my quest to be a completely self sufficient straight razor addict I have recently ordered a Norton 4k/8k waterstone and am looking for an inexpensive means of "finishing/ touching up". I presented this scenario to my local honing professional and he recommended a table strop with abrasive paste as an alternative to a finishing hone until I can raise the cash for a 10-16k. He did say that it is an inferior alternative that was likely to take much longer than a proper hone, but that it would work better than just an 8K finish.

What are your thoughts on this?

My first thought is: what don't you trust about your local honing professional?
If you're simply looking for confirmation and/or alternative suggestions, you're bound to get them.

Not at all that I don't "trust" him. he is very good at what he does. I am just looking for options since he was unable to give me details on lapping pastes. Probably because he doesn't use them. He has what looks like a couple K worth of stones.

Originally Posted by Straightandproud

Not at all that I don't "trust" him. he is very good at what he does. I am just looking for options since he was unable to give me details on lapping pastes. Probably because he doesn't use them. He has what looks like a couple K worth of stones.

That reminds me of a good quote from a prominent honer. No amount of money spent on hones will ever replace the time spent to learn how to use them. It may not be word for word but everyone understands the context. Use the paste.

I have an Illinois #127 strop. the underside of the leather is pretty coarse and fuzzy, obviously because that is where it was cut. So I could use the paste on it even though it is rough?

More importantly before thinking of 12-15k you must master the 4k/8k, read this thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...on-2012-a.html

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Some years ago the 8k side of the norton was considered the 'finishing stone.' My honing mentor told me to restrict my finishing to the 8k until I was getting a DFS at that level, before going on up the ladder. Matter of fact there were more than a few guys on SRP, back then, who were not caught up in the HAD, and stuck with the 8k completely satisfied with it. Chrom-Ox is nice to have to gild the lilly, but get real good up to the 8k before you spend $ on a 12 or a 16k. IMHO.

This is good sound advice

I will add that I advise that guys wait awhile until they give even the 'touching up' a go until they have the basics of stropping, lathering and of course shaving down. If you take the time and see how many new guys ruin a perfectly good professionally honed blade just by incorrect stropping. You can totally mess up an edge 10 times faster with a hone.

It wasn't mentioned in your initial post so I'll ask; did your local help tell you that the Norton 4/8K will need a good lapping before you can use it? If not, he should have.

Back to the 8K edge. I've said this time and time again and I'll keep saying it:

If I were to drop and break my Norton 4/8K I'd eat peanut butter sandwiches day in and day out until I could afford another one. If I were to drop and break my Naniwa 12K and couldn't afford to replace it--I could live off of my 8K edge for the rest of my life.

If you can't get a close, smooth and comfortable shave off the 8K no amount of pastes or higher grit hones will do 'Magic'. As my friend Glen likes to say:

"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"

Back to the original question the OP asked; yes, a pasted line up consisting of one, or a sequnce of many, abrasive strops is a very viable route and will yield fine results. As far as an 8K stone being a shave ready standard I would have to agree with what everyone else has said. Works great, however thereis always something new to try. I am pretty sure that is how your honing mentor got a few grand of stones.

Yes, he did inform me of the correct method of lapping in the stone. And you have me sold on focusing on the Norton. I have been very successful at stropping my razors. I have approximately 20+ shaves on one razor and it is starting to tug during a shave. That one will be my first attempt at honing.

You can shave off of an 8k just fine. Everything after 4k is pretty much just making the blade smoother and thus the shave smoother. You can maintain a blade for years with just pasted strops (CrOx, FeOx, and carbon black) and never need a finishing stone. People have been doing it that way for over a century.
The hones are just cooler.

CrOx is comparable to 30k grit, so a jump from 8k stone to 30k is going to take a good number of laps (maybe 30 or 40), but it will work. 1 or .5 micron diamond paste would be faster and follow it with CrOx so it is not as harsh.


When I started shaving I was hitting the 12k and 8k stones pretty often. As my technique has improved I only use CrOx about once a month and only use my 12k if I have it out finishing a banged up blade.

I've never used paste but the advice is sound. I'd still get a 16k hone, I use my Shapton 16k basically as a 'barbers' hone' for touching up the edge. I use it of course after using the Norton 4/8 (on the very rare occasions I actually have to use the 4/8), but more often use the Shapton 16k to bring the edge back; normally only 10 laps for most of my razors (20 for the harder Swedish steel razors).

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in thinking about the edge of the razor (unless you WANT to) and its fragility, etc. It's all theory and there's a LOT of variables. Just see how you go refreshing the edge on the pasted strop (and later on the 16k) and DOCUMENT what you do. Use your documentation to inform you of what works and what doesn't; not some metallurgy text book or microscope pictures. It's how the razor feels on your face and the job it does that matters, NOT what an edge might look like under a microscope.

I started keeping a honing journal some times ago so I could make reference to it when responding to beginners' queries here. I rotate 6 straights. Referring to the journal tells me I refresh the edge of my razors on the 16k only about 1 every six months OR LESS. However, again, lots of variables, I have quite a light beard growth. But, I know, for me, all I need is a Norton 4/8 (only really used for when I buy another razor) and the 16k (10 to 20 laps as mentioned) and my razors are always in very good condition.

BTW, in addition to this I strop 30/70 each shave with 10/10 post shave. I also stopped applying any sort of oil to my razors (I used to apply eucalyptus oil) and have found no difference whatsoever...

Hope this is of some help.

Carl