Thread: 8000 --> 15000 --> CrOx

Thanks for the advise JimmyHAD. When you say you have 'high finishers' what grit hones are you talking about 20K?

Originally Posted by aquapura1

Thanks for the advise JimmyHAD. When you say you have 'high finishers' what grit hones are you talking about 20K?

Technically the 8k is a 'high grit' finisher. At least 7 years ago it was considered so. You can get a great shave at the 8k level and if you're not able to hone a razor for a DFS (damn fine shave) at the 8k level you're not ready to go beyond that in grit. At least that is the way I was taught. Currently I am using a 1k, 5k, 10k and 20k progression a lot of the time. AFAIC, anything up to and over 8k is a finisher.

Shapton has the 15k pro, the 16k glass stone, the 30k in both of the aforementioned series. Naniwa has an 8 and a 12k in the super stone, a 10k in the chosera line. A j-nat is a Japanese natural stone. Natural stones, particularly j-nats are a field of knowledge unto themselves. A lot simpler, if you're beginning to stick with a synthetic progression. At least until you learn to hone well with what you have. Adding many various stones can complicate the process. Too much of a good thing.

Jimmy what would you recommend a 12K chinese superstone or a 20K Gokumyo?

+1 JimmyHAD. Though I'm new to str8 shaving, I'm not so new to sharpening. And the one thing that I have realized is that when it comes to honing, sharpening a knife, or just sanding wood (or other objects) with sandpaper, understanding particle size is key. This is one reason I like the micron scale better than the grit scale. It could be because of my scientific background, but that is no here nor there.

Any time you double the grit size (taking into consideration that you are only looking at only one of the many grit standards used across the world) you are in essence cutting the particle size in half. For example going from 220 grit sandpaper to 440 grit sandpaper, the particle size of the 220 is twice the size of the 440 grit. Or looking at hones:

an 8,000 grit stone will have a particle size of ~1.84 micrometers in diameter (microns),
16,000 grit = 0.92 micron (as per shapton)

7,500 grit = 2 micron
15,000 grit = 1 micron,
30,000 grit = 0.5 micron (whether stone or CrOx)

As you can see as you double grit in essence you are cutting the particle diameter down by half. In other words the 8,000 grit stone will cut half as deep as a 4,000 grit stone. So if you were wanting to create your own custom set of hones one of the easiest way to do it is to double your grit sizes per stone i.e.(1K, 2K, 4K, 8K, 16K, 30K). Yeah you can add a grit that is in between any two given sizes (i.e. 8,000 and 16,000) in order to reduce any work done on the higher grit, but i would not go past double the previous grit lest you want to do more work than necessary.

So In theory (only in theory) with all things being equal, if 20 passes of a 4K Stone takes out the scratches from a 2K stone, 20 passes on an 8K stone should take out the scratches caused by a 4K stone. But we rarely see this since there are so many variables when it comes to honing (i.e. skill of the honer, amount of pressure, differences between types of stones, slurry vs. no slurry, ect.), making honing into an art rather than a science.

In the higher grits, post 10K we can make large jumps easily and do often, with paste.

Chrome Ox is .50-30k grit, and we often make that jump from 8K. Diamond and CBN are often used at .25-60K, .125-120 grit and .10-160K all with no problem in making very large grit jumps.

When sanding, 1000K jumps are normal post 1K.

It is the deep stria, that presents problems and must be removed in smaller grit jumps. The closer the grit jumps the fewer the laps needed.

Personally I have been toying with the idea of a 20k Gokymuo, but doubt that it will do anything that high grit naturals and paste won’t do, especially for the cost of the 20k.

The 12k Super Stone is a go to finisher and with just a strop or Chrome ox will give a great edge. I believe a 12K Super Stone is a must, like a good 1K the middle stones do not matter as much as long as it is a smooth progression.

I would paste a separate strop, nylon, Poly or canvas for best result, especially if you have a nice leather strop.

Originally Posted by aquapura1

Jimmy what would you recommend a 12K chinese superstone or a 20K Gokumyo?

I would suggest starting out with the 12k. It is way cheaper and a very useful stone. Great for finishing and for touching up. If you eventually get a 20k the 12k is a useful step between the 8k and the 20k. Unless you just have to have the so called ultimate, the 12k might be all you would ever want/need.

I have the Naniwa 4k 8k combo and go to the 12k from there. Works for me but if I were to buy stones today I would buy the Pro series nanaiwas. I have the pro 1000k and a 600k and they are both super fast. ( I only use the 600k for knives that are in bad shape, then go to the 1000k)

By adding the Naniwa SS 12K, you will have a more than adequate system to maintain and finish your blades. Anything beyond this is gravy so long as your puttin' in the work at the lower grit levels and achieving the proper results before proceeding to the higher grit stones and have a good bevel set.

About the Suehiro Gokumyo. After having previously used a stellar Nakayama finisher to put the final touches on my razors I have recently obtained the SG20K. It's my opinion that the beauty of this stone lies in its speed and ease of use. It has the capability to effortlessly improve a 12K edge. Splash and go, and if you have a nice edge at 12K, the 20K will make it so much better in about 60 seconds. Certainly these results can be obtained with other stones, but none so easily and quickly as with the SG20K.

My normal honing progression in a Norton 4k/8k then C12K followed by a CrOx paddle. I get great edges from these. Yours should too.

Originally Posted by aquapura1

Jimmy what would you recommend a 12K chinese superstone or a 20K Gokumyo?

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as a 12k chinese superstone.
The 12k SuperStone is made by Naniwa (japanese).
A chinese natural stone is unfortunately and mistakenly referred to as a chinese 12k.

A chinese natural is $20-$30.
A Naniwa ss12k is about $75.
A 20k gokumyo is about $200.

Any of them will improve a properly honed 8k edge, but the Chinese stone will be variable in how well it does this.