Thread: BBW/Codicule Slurry or not?

I bought a box of odds and ends at an estate sale that turned out to be a treasure chest. It was supposed to have contained an assrtment of tools(it did) but at the very bottom of this $10.00 box was gold mates. There were two vintage wedges (no scales) which I posted yesterday in the workshop forum, but also an Escher hone and a BBW /Codicule natural hone both with no chips or dings. My questions are about the BBW/Codicule ( at least thats what I think it is). Pix are terrible sorry. I aways heard the BBW/side was blue . This appears to be more of a brownish color with the same color slurry when lapped on a DMT. I do not have slurry stones for either side but I have heard there are those who use only water to preserve the hone. Also what is the use of the BBW side. I know the Coicule side is supposed to be a superb finisher. ( I have only honed with synthetics so I have no experience with naturals.) Hope some experienced honers will give shed some light.

Based on the pics, it looks like it is a natural combo BBW/coti. I'm a big coti fan myself and have had great luck using them to go everywhere from bevel set (takes a while) to finishing. I've recently started playing with the BBW and have had great results. I use a relatively thick slurry on the coti side, then to a relatively thick slurry on the BBW, followed by a very thin (like 5 rubs with a slurry stone) on the coti side, and finally, finish with water only on the Coti... best shaves I've ever had were that method.

The great thing is that with such amazing shaves, it's great for avoiding HAD... however, it makes me want more coti's.

It appears to be a natural (not glued) coticule. The yellow side is so fragile that they used to glue BBW to the back of it to reinforce the yellow. In later years they began using slate for that purpose. A natural is mined where the two veins intersect closely enough to take the coticule with the BBW backing integral to the stone.

IME slurry or not is a matter of experimenting and seeing what you find best for you. Try it with slurry, without. Thick diluted to thin, thin to start, then go to water only. It is just an adventure to play with these and see what you want to do with them depending on the razor.

Thanks for the insight . Does the BBW side appear brownish as well as it's slurry on some of these hones. Also what is the best use for each side?

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Thanks for the insight . Does the BBW side appear brownish as well as it's slurry on some of these hones. Also what is the best use for each side?

I've seen guys refer to the slurry on the BBW side as purple. It seems to me that the ones I have are reddish brown, to brown. Sort of a chocolate on some of them. The slurry might have a purple tinge or maybe a reddish brown. A lot of guys like the BBW side and some use it almost as if it were a 4/8 Norton or something like that. Setting a bevel on a 1k, sharpening on the BBW and finishing on the yellow. I've messed with that but generally only use a coticule occasionally for finishing if I feel like it. I keep them more for nostalgia than for working, because i have such better alternatives in synthetic hones. Better as in faster, finer and more consistent in my results. YMMV.

Thanks again Jimmy. I gave that hone a try out on a Joseph Rodgers I had just set a bevel on last night. I see why people like them. I haven't used anything but synthetics so I think I'm going to use the BBW like a 4/8 Norton for a bit. I really liked the results on the Rodgers. I appreciate the feedback this really is a great site.

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Thanks for the insight . Does the BBW side appear brownish as well as it's slurry on some of these hones. Also what is the best use for each side?

the BBW color side varies a little, from dullish to almost three dimensional peacock-ish pattern. Your brown side will be abrasive/bbw, there is no exception on natural coticule combo stones that I'm aware of. I've had four combo stones and the BBW side has varied from dullish looking on one, to black on another (with brown streaks in it) to purple on another (and that doesn't count the lagrise, which was very purple and didn't look like BBW).

You can slurry the stone with another soft stone if you want, though it looks nicer with coticule slurry, and it will work more like coticule is to work. If it is a fine stone, in my opinion, it is nicer to have such a stone on clear water and use it as a finisher.

You got yourself a nice stone there!!

Looks to me like what today would be called a La Veinnette. My very best coticules are La Veinnettes. Ardennes charges a premium for those stones ... Do not let it get away, unless you want to send it my way!
The slurry off the BBW side seems correct ... As others have said, from purplish to brown. Does the stone smell "earthy" when you slurry it?
In any case, a natural combo slurry stone, or two or three, would be very useful to you. I think you'll find the shaves off that yellow side superb once you get used to it.

Great find, and good luck with it!

BTW, as you get to know the intricacies of your individual stone, you can finish on clear water or a very light misty slurry ... whatever your preference. Enjoy!

like stated above it is an adventure in its own ... if im doing a heavy bevel set on a razor i just sanded down or took some small chips out of i always go to the BBW side after bevel set and do 3 sets of strokes checking the edge after each one to assure i havnt digressed in any way ..
1)heavy slurry
2)medium- slurry
3) light to almost pure water

then go over to the coticule side and start progressions from there ..

just when i thought i had the coticule all figured out i started reading about pressure ,no pressure , just water , skipping this or that , and what system i had and settled with is now just a starting point and have since increased my edges capabilities beyond what i had once thought was its max .. i try to document every step in a log for each razor ( did in the past and am now doing again) and although most are similar i can honestly say on some razors i need improvement and others have reached the sweet spot but all in all its like a game with a million ways to play when messing with these naturals !! good luck !!

If the coti side has a blushing appearance as the photos indicate, it should be a fast cutter. I have found whenever the coti side has had speed on a combo, the bbw has been a good hone as well. Not all bbw is razor worthy imo, but some can be really good. You have lots of options. I like going from my bevel to a bbw on slurry to water and then my coti side on a lighter slurry to water. BBW in between the bevel and the coti is a real nice way to prime the edge and you won't have as much work to do in the end on the coti side. You can also just do coti only. See how fast it is on straight water. If it is making the water black with halfstrokes on straight water, you probably don't need heavy slurry to get your edge where it has to be. Basically, you need to learn your stone. And get a real slurry stone, don't use a dmt to slurry a coti. Escher, use a light misty slurry and progress to water.