Thread: What Do You Think About The Shapton 30K

Just a comment on grit scales - again - the Suehiro G20k is 0.5 microns, the Shapton 30k is 0.49 microns ... I'd go for the Suehiro. The Norton 8k is about 4.5k on the JIS scale Naniwa uses.

But Jimmy and others bring up a point I've discussed with Alex Gilmore before, the smoothest edges seem to come from stones that are not the ultimate in fineness, ie the Thuringian and coticule come to mind, in the JNat lineup, many people prefer the edge off a kiita versus a finer, harder asagi, me included. It's an interesting topic.

Cheers, Steve

Definitely a complex issue that nobody has ever seriously investigated in a scientific manner publicly. I'm certain that engineers from somewhere like Schick or Gillette could probably answer many of our questions, but probably never would due to the info most likely bring considered proprietary trade secrets.

My theory is that the edges feel different based on the depth and shape of the scratches where they intersect with the apex, and that's probably about all there is to it. Whether this is entirely or even partially correct... Who knows?

Truley is an interesting topic,If Shapton came out with, 40/60/80 grit stones, they would sell like hotcakes (to those that have no clue)

360.00? I often wonder what a 30k Shapton is actually designed for. For knives, it would produce an edge which would degrade quickly.
Seems same would be so for razors. Just like many high grit hones, the reasoning of some (with the money to spend) is that those few strokes it affords will get a razor to the pinnacle. Some razors will not tolerate it, such as old Sheffields.
Purchasing higher and higher grit hones to get a better shave has to stop somewhere. They will not compensate for inadequate edges from 12k and below IMO. Sort of like going out and buying a 700 HP automobile to drive to work and back. How are you going to use it to an advantage over one with 350 HP? Just to know you have it? Perhaps the badge on the fender for all to see? The possibility for overuse easily is great! JMHO

Originally Posted by sharptonn

360.00? I often wonder what a 30k Shapton is actually designed for.

If I'm not badly mistaken it was designed for plane blades and chisels, the Japanese variety primarily IMHO. Go to JapanTool dot com and check out some of their chisels and plane blades. The people who are into that are as serious about their tools as we are about our razors. I am under the impression the 30k is to put the icing on the cake, giving a bevel that is like a mirror polish. We just adapted their hones to our use, same with all of the factory synthetics, norton, naniwa, chosera and shaptons. IMHO.

Originally Posted by sharptonn

360.00? I often wonder what a 30k Shapton is actually designed for. For knives, it would produce an edge which would degrade quickly.
Seems same would be so for razors. Just like many high grit hones, the reasoning of some (with the money to spend) is that those few strokes it affords will get a razor to the pinnacle. Some razors will not tolerate it, such as old Sheffields.
Purchasing higher and higher grit hones to get a better shave has to stop somewhere. They will not compensate for inadequate edges from 12k and below IMO. Sort of like going out and buying a 700 HP automobile to drive to work and back. How are you going to use it to an advantage over one with 350 HP? Just to know you have it? Perhaps the badge on the fender for all to see? The possibility for overuse easily is great! JMHO

Here's a video which demonstrates how it's used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-rDvSEnTHM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zng0L10a-gU

Originally Posted by Steve56

Just a comment on grit scales - again - the Suehiro G20k is 0.5 microns, the Shapton 30k is 0.49 microns ... I'd go for the Suehiro. The Norton 8k is about 4.5k on the JIS scale Naniwa uses.

But Jimmy and others bring up a point I've discussed with Alex Gilmore before, the smoothest edges seem to come from stones that are not the ultimate in fineness, ie the Thuringian and coticule come to mind, in the JNat lineup, many people prefer the edge off a kiita versus a finer, harder asagi, me included. It's an interesting topic.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by sharptonn

360.00? I often wonder what a 30k Shapton is actually designed for. For knives, it would produce an edge which would degrade quickly.
Seems same would be so for razors. Just like many high grit hones, the reasoning of some (with the money to spend) is that those few strokes it affords will get a razor to the pinnacle. Some razors will not tolerate it, such as old Sheffields.
Purchasing higher and higher grit hones to get a better shave has to stop somewhere. They will not compensate for inadequate edges from 12k and below IMO. Sort of like going out and buying a 700 HP automobile to drive to work and back. How are you going to use it to an advantage over one with 350 HP? Just to know you have it? Perhaps the badge on the fender for all to see? The possibility for overuse easily is great! JMHO

I'm definitely in the Tom and Steve ( and Jimmy) camp of thinking when it comes to edges. Particularly older Sheffield's which I believe perform best (at least to my liking anyway) off a finer Coticule and Escher....12-15K. Whenever I take a blade to a sharper edge off a 'higher grit' stone I always seem to want to cool the edge a bit using my leaded strop anyway for a smoother shave. As far as that goes, I've had simply 'unbeatable shaves' off of some of the better vintage Barber Hones in the 12-15k range...

Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

I'm definitely in the Tom and Steve ( and Jimmy) camp of thinking when it comes to edges. Particularly older Sheffield's which I believe perform best (at least to my liking anyway) off a finer Coticule and Escher....12-15K. Whenever I take a blade to a sharper edge off a 'higher grit' stone I always seem to want to cool the edge a bit using my leaded strop anyway for a smoother shave. As far as that goes, I've had simply 'unbeatable shaves' off of some of the better vintage Barber Hones in the 12-15k range...

This (12-15k) is exactly the grit range for "smoothness" Alex and I were talking about, Thuringians, kiita, coticule w/honing methods to reduce scratch depth (unicot, dilucot...).

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

the smoothest edges seem to come from stones that are not the ultimate in fineness, ie the Thuringian and coticule come to mind, in the JNat lineup, many people prefer the edge off a kiita versus a finer, harder asagi, me included.

I don't. I always finish on my hard Asagi or a 20k Gok. The is 20k is very hard for a synth & the Asagi is harder.
My point is you can't generalise, especially with Jnats.

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Some razors will not tolerate it, such as old Sheffields ...... with crumbly, bubbly pitted old steel.

There, fixed it for ya Tom i gotta say I don't have trouble with old Sheffileds & the 2 finishers I mention above.

Originally Posted by eKretz

I'm certain that engineers from somewhere like Schick or Gillette could probably answer many of our questions, but probably never would due to the info most likely bring considered proprietary trade secrets.

Or the engineers at Suehiro. They seem to have modeled the Gokumyo stone(s) to mimic the desirable qualities of a natural stone, undoubtedly a JNat. That means they had to know what physical attributes equated to a desirable feeling edge!

Maybe things like not just the grit size but shape? Certainly the matrix of the G20k is harder than any JNat I've ever had or heard about so they didn't mimic that. And so on.

Cheers, Steve