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Thread: My jnat bevel-setter / arato (iyoto)

  1. #11
    illegitimum non carborundum Utopian's Avatar
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    ...or sadly, both!

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    Senior Member DireStraights's Avatar
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    If Botan counts as a bevel setter they work great if you get a koppa sized piece. More in the 3kish range so not for real heavy work but if you are doing regular hollow ground blades you can get a bevel set with just a few slurry refreshes.

    Botan is a pretty expensive option though, mine was near $300 and not that big. Great for circles and such but back and forth feels a little short. Botan koppa with botan tomo slurry leaves a really nice edge though which is easily refined.

    I would consider it more of a bevel refresher than a full on setter.

  3. #13
    I used Nakayamas for my house mainaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DireStraights View Post
    If Botan counts as a bevel setter they work great if you get a koppa sized piece. More in the 3kish range so not for real heavy work but if you are doing regular hollow ground blades you can get a bevel set with just a few slurry refreshes.

    Botan is a pretty expensive option though, mine was near $300 and not that big. Great for circles and such but back and forth feels a little short. Botan koppa with botan tomo slurry leaves a really nice edge though which is easily refined.

    I would consider it more of a bevel refresher than a full on setter.
    Not good enough for bevel setter. Botan is very hard to find as the stock is depleted, currently what is available is Yae Botan and it is not good either.

    Bevel setters should be able to tackle blades that have issues and a J-Nat will definitely not be able to remove frowns and medium sized chips within reasonable time, not to mention correct messed up wedges.
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    Stefan

  4. #14
    Tumbling down the rabbit hole... Atchbo's Avatar
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    Yep, I love my Chosera 1k.

    However, all of this begs the question: what did the Japanese use for kamisori initial bevels before the advent of synthetics?

    Anyway, I have what I need now.

  5. #15
    I used Nakayamas for my house mainaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atchbo View Post
    Yep, I love my Chosera 1k.

    However, all of this begs the question: what did the Japanese use for kamisori initial bevels before the advent of synthetics?

    Anyway, I have what I need now.
    My guess is, a slow coarse natural of some kind.
    Stefan

  6. #16
    Senior Member DireStraights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    Not good enough for bevel setter. Botan is very hard to find as the stock is depleted, currently what is available is Yae Botan and it is not good either.

    Bevel setters should be able to tackle blades that have issues and a J-Nat will definitely not be able to remove frowns and medium sized chips within reasonable time, not to mention correct messed up wedges.
    Did you read my post buddy? I said it is not for heavy work and can only really remove material from full hollows.

    As I said botan is more of a refresher, I still felt it worth mentioning as it really does add to my repertoire. It may not be good for repairs or severe steel removal but it does have a place early on in progression.

    Botan is more an option for those with HAD. If you are the type to buy more stones than needed Botan can actually add something valuable to your progression. I like being able to avoid the whole 3k/5k/8k progression after bevel setting, which botan can accomplish.

    For the record I usually go 1k to botan because as you said it doesn't remove enough steel. It is great for those razors that come "almost" there, and it leaves a scratch pattern that is easily removed by finer stones.

    My chosera 1k is my go to steel eater and bevel setter so I hope no one thinks I'm saying a 1k isn't necessary as they are very important.
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  7. #17
    I used Nakayamas for my house mainaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DireStraights View Post
    Did you read my post buddy? I said it is not for heavy work and can only really remove material from full hollows.

    As I said botan is more of a refresher, I still felt it worth mentioning as it really does add to my repertoire. It may not be good for repairs or severe steel removal but it does have a place early on in progression.

    Botan is more an option for those with HAD. If you are the type to buy more stones than needed Botan can actually add something valuable to your progression. I like being able to avoid the whole 3k/5k/8k progression after bevel setting, which botan can accomplish.

    For the record I usually go 1k to botan because as you said it doesn't remove enough steel. It is great for those razors that come "almost" there, and it leaves a scratch pattern that is easily removed by finer stones.

    My chosera 1k is my go to steel eater and bevel setter so I hope no one thinks I'm saying a 1k isn't necessary as they are very important.
    I am not your buddy, that kind of condescending tone you can take somewhere else, it does not belong on SRP.
    The post is about certain J-Nat as a bevel setter. Bevel setter is a stone that is needed to set bevels on a razor of any grind and condition, as long as it is not shot beyond hope. You are talking about a hone that one buys because of HAD, and that does not bring anything different to the table other than spending more than on a set of 3/5/8k synthetics and is slower too.
    Stefan

  8. #18
    Tumbling down the rabbit hole... Atchbo's Avatar
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    I don't have much real estate on my botan, and whether I have HAD is very much open for debate, but I sure like mine. I could see it being helpful/enjoyable in koppa size after a bevel setter, but just what that natural bevel setter would have been (in a Japanese progression) was what I was after.

    In context, besides the scarcity of carbon steel in the form of tamahagane, I can imagine it would make life easier creating kamisori from softer steel except for the actual cutting edge, especially without heavy synthetic cutters. My homemade creations in O1 would have taken a lifetime just to shape if all I had was botan.

  9. #19
    Senior Member DireStraights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    I am not your buddy, that kind of condescending tone you can take somewhere else, it does not belong on SRP.
    The post is about certain J-Nat as a bevel setter. Bevel setter is a stone that is needed to set bevels on a razor of any grind and condition, as long as it is not shot beyond hope. You are talking about a hone that one buys because of HAD, and that does not bring anything different to the table other than spending more than on a set of 3/5/8k synthetics and is slower too.
    Wow... I was trying to be friendly. That was pretty uncalled for.
    eKretz likes this.

  10. #20
    Tumbling down the rabbit hole... Atchbo's Avatar
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    Don't sweat it, guys. Email/forums are tone deaf.

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