Thread: CBN strops.... a thought

Originally Posted by DoctorSaul

What do you think about using the 2.0 micron or the 4.0 micron CBN slurries in place of an 8000 grit stone to set the bevel? I tried it with 2.0, since I have the 4.0 on order, using nanocloth mounted on a glass plate, and it seems to work very well (visual assessment) and fast.... I'm in the process of taking it onto the 1.0 micron and the 0.5 micron CBN nanocloth on glass strops to finish.

I find my time too valuable too spend a few days trying to set a bevel on an 8K. 1K is much more efficient!

Originally Posted by Splashone

I find my time too valuable too spend a few days trying to set a bevel on an 8K. 1K is much more efficient!

If you do what you say to set the bevel with a 1K, won't you spend the next few days trying to smooth out the roughness on the blade edge? I thought it was best to set the bevel with no less than a 8000K grit, unless the blade was in really poor shape, am I mistaken?

Originally Posted by DoctorSaul

If you do what you say to set the bevel with a 1K, won't you spend the next few days trying to smooth out the roughness on the blade edge? I thought it was best to set the bevel with no less than a 8000K grit, unless the blade was in really poor shape, am I mistaken?

Once the bevel is set on a 1K moving up through 5K, 8K and then finisher is quite quick. To follow your logic, why not just use the finisher and only own one stone?

Originally Posted by mainaman

Pretty sure Ken does not produce CBN,.

I don't know if he sources the CBN and just bottles it up or not. I suspect he set the specifications for the material that he wanted and sought out suppliers and/or manufacturers that could supply his unique suspensions and slurries. In any case, between Jende Industries and Chef Knives To Go, we can buy Ken Schwartz CBN slurries and suspensions. There may be other vendors of Ken's CBN but those are the only two that I know of and have purchased from.

Progressing from a 1k to 20k took me about 15 minutes tonight. Here's the result:

Originally Posted by Splashone

Once the bevel is set on a 1K moving up through 5K, 8K and then finisher is quite quick. To follow your logic, why not just use the finisher and only own one stone?

From what I understand, if the edge is in good condition and does not need to be reset, starting off with the finisher to refresh the edge is all you do need. If you don't need to reset the bevel, ever, then you need only a finishing stone (12K or higher). Please correct me if I am wrong.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Progressing from a 1k to 20k took me about 15 minutes tonight. Here's the result:

I'm getting confused. The photos show an edge that has some rough spots to my eye. Isn't the objective to hone the edge so that there is a consistency in "smoothness" from end to end (which should result in a comfortable shave)? Why would you use a 1K in your progression if the edge does not need to be reset? I'm still learning, so please don't be offended by my questions that may seem simplistic.

Originally Posted by DoctorSaul

I don't know if he sources the CBN and just bottles it up or not. I suspect he set the specifications for the material that he wanted and sought out suppliers and/or manufacturers that could supply his unique suspensions and slurries. In any case, between Jende Industries and Chef Knives To Go, we can buy Ken Schwartz CBN slurries and suspensions. There may be other vendors of Ken's CBN but those are the only two that I know of and have purchased from.

Anyone can buy quality CBN online, by the gallon.

Originally Posted by DoctorSaul

I'm getting confused. The photos show an edge that has some rough spots to my eye. Isn't the objective to hone the edge so that there is a consistency in "smoothness" from end to end (which should result in a comfortable shave)? Why would you use a 1K in your progression if the edge does not need to be reset? I'm still learning, so please don't be offended by my questions that may seem simplistic.

That is at 200x, any edge magnified that high will show all sorts of "rough spots" if the lighting is right. That's why I always take and post multiple shots with varying lighting. Many of the folks who use high magnification post shots with zero scratches, but that's only because the lighting is manipulated or just poorly directed to hide them. Rest assured, they are still there.

I could post a shot of that same edge with the light source moved to the right place that would make it look completely scratch free. I could do the same with a bevel finished on a 1k or 2k stone. The important thing is not that there are no scratches, but that they are very shallow - this is pretty clearly illustrated in the two shots above - the shot showing scratches is lighting aimed to bounce directly off the bevel and into the scope lens. The darker shot is raking light, which tends to emphasize and exaggerate scratch depth. As you can see, the scratches are almost nonexistent under raking light, which means that they are very shallow.

The edge depicted is very smooth in actuality. It is also directly from the stone, pre-stropping, and the taking light is aimed so that some of it bounces off the very edge, which is why there are some tiny white areas showing...this can give a good idea of relative edge width. You will learn over time that scope shots are not the arbiter that you think they are - at least if you start using your edges anyway. Some edges that look scary under high magnification can give absolutely fantastic shaves, and some that look very nice can give awful shaves.

Starting with too fine of a stone is a rookie mistake that can waste a LOT of time and effort. Higher grit stones do not remove much steel at all, so it is important to start with a coarser stone if there is any steel removal to be done. The higher grit stones are merely for polishing out coarser scratches. Once those coarser scratches are gone and the surface scratches are all from the finer stone they have a very tough time removing any more steel in a reasonable time frame.

Originally Posted by DoctorSaul

From what I understand, if the edge is in good condition and does not need to be reset, starting off with the finisher to refresh the edge is all you do need. If you don't need to reset the bevel, ever, then you need only a finishing stone (12K or higher). Please correct me if I am wrong.

But in your wording, you specifically said bevel set. I would say that if you know the history of the edge your statement about would be correct. I have never bought a razor that gave me with that information, therefore I start from a place where I know what to do. Set the bevel.

I'm getting confused. The photos show an edge that has some rough spots to my eye. Isn't the objective to hone the edge so that there is a consistency in "smoothness" from end to end (which should result in a comfortable shave)? Why would you use a 1K in your progression if the edge does not need to be reset? I'm still learning, so please don't be offended by my questions that may seem simplistic.

I don't believe anyone claimed they were using a 1K to do anything but a bevel set. You have the cart before the horse in your statement, the objective in honing is to have an edge that results in a close comfortable shave. Whether that is the smoothest, shiniest bevel or not is immaterial.