Thread: 8K Norton is not enough.

Originally Posted by Razorfeld

Gosh, Glen, I wish it could be gotten across to new shaver/honers that if they don't try the 1,4,8k challenge, starting with what makes it all possible, a freshly set bevel, all the finishing stones..
My myopic eyes were opened to true sight when the hard reality of it is 8k w12k finish is the Gold Standard.

My experience as well. I started with a Nani 12K to "refresh" and maintain my razors, but as my purchasing habits centered on antique buys, I quickly found myself realizing that what I had need far more than a few strokes on a 12K.

Originally Posted by Razorfeld

Hear! Hear! ...An 8k is the benchmark. All frills and whistles after that, which is to say that it, in time, smoother edges can be gotten as long as the bevel is good. My new motto is, "In 12k I trust" because it smooths the 8k to comfort level.

My eyes were truely opened taking the shave tests, particularly, the 1K shave test. I had no irritation and it wasn't unpleasant. Wow was that the moment for me.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Honing after the bevel is done is easy but you have to learn how to KNOW that the bevel is done.

Yes, you should be able to shave off of the 4k using all regions of the blade. If you cannot, then you are wasting your time on the 8k.

And, while there are variable tests to check progress, laying that steel to skin is the only way you will be able to check true honing progress(in my lowly opinion)

I'd love to have a Chosera 1K, but I bought a King 1K and am just as happy with it.

While there are several good threads on bevel setting and setters, here's a review of sorts that Glen put together that aggregates a lot of data regarding many of the 1K stones out there. It's not meant to be comprehensive, but as Glen says, a "rundown".

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...l-setting.html

Hope that helps.

ps-that being said, my first stone was a 12K and I have no doubt that if your honing technique is careful, measured and precise, that you'll have no problems refreshing a pro-honed edge that has not been damaged. YMMV

Originally Posted by Utopian

I've never owned a 4/8k either. How many times have you shaved off of an 8k Norton edge?

3 times a week for the past year.... I just got a Chrom-ox balsa board and a Naniwa 12K and no doubt, there is a smoothness difference, but if I lost the balsa in a fire and dropped the 12K and it broke into a thousand pieces, I would have no problem going back to just 8k... with lots of water and zero pressure, I was getting mirror finishes on my edges that shaved like a champ.... no 'opinion'/'YMMV' there at all

Originally Posted by ecormier

3 times a week for the past year....

Actually, I was directing that question to the person I quoted, DireStraights. However, I do agree that Norton 8k edges are just fine.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Actually, I was directing that question to the person I quoted, DireStraights. However, I do agree that Norton 8k edges are just fine.

Sorry, I was confused

Originally Posted by DireStraights

The 8k norton isn't really that fine. I would say most people prefer a finisher after.

I consider using pastes the same as a finishing stone in this regard. I don't think many people would go off there 8k norton to just leather stropping and then shave(i'm sure some do though). Also i've never owned a 4/8k, just used a few times so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I love the shaves coming off my Jnats and cotis though, with just plain stropping. I think you need to consider a finishing stone or some diamond spray or pastes.

If you have taken the time to read what so many who have so much experience with using the Norton 4/8K along with many, many naturals have said. The Norton 8K gives a Very Nice Shave!

I'm not the only one who has posted that I could easily live off of a Norton 8K finish for the rest of my life with no regrets!

All of the fancy pastes and finishing stones aren't worth a Tinker's Dam if you haven't learned how to get a nice edge at a lower grit. As my good friend Glen (GSSIXGUN) likes to say;

"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen

Originally Posted by DireStraights

That is interesting to note ecormier. Maybe i'll try shaving off of my 5k masamoto, it's around the same grit as an 8k norton.

That would be a useless comparison. The grit size is not the only factor for a hone.

Different 8k edges?

I had a razor that a bought a long time ago that was honed only up to an 8k norton. It was a much less pleasant than the thuri finished one I was using at the same time. That was the only one i've shaved with.

I have only ever sharpened knives on them. I'm sure if I tried myself or tried a razor that someone with skills did on an 8k it would be better. It is quite possible the person who honed the razor I had just didn't do a good job.

Lets just say I sent that 8k razor out to be honed as I just couldn't do ATG. I blamed the stone then but it could just have been the honing job. I'm willing to admit I could be wrong about it not being fine enough.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I've never owned a 4/8k either. How many times have you shaved off of an 8k Norton edge?

Or the stropping…

How is it useless? Are you saying binders or the amount/size of abrasive make them unique? I think if they leave a similar scratch pattern then the shaves will be similar as well.

Shaving off my 5k JIS is close enough in grit range as if I had the norton 8k and wanted to try that. The cutting speed and binders are not going to make one shave poorly and the other shave well. I can get HHT results off my 5k, and i'm sure the norton can do the same.

They are both higher mid range stones and I highly doubt if you did a blind shave test you could pick out the norton over my masamoto or any similar grit stone.

That's just my opinion, based on conjecture.

But for the record, my 5K shave technically isn't a comparison as I don't own a norton or have a razor that was finished on one. My shaving off the 5k would be for the sake of my own knowledge and experimentation. There is no "comparison" happening at all, just testing of the qualities of a single stone in relation to my face.

Originally Posted by Utopian

That would be a useless comparison. The grit size is not the only factor for a hone.

Scratch pattern is one of the most misleading indicators of a comfortable shave.