Thread: La Roccia natural 12K-15K

Originally Posted by Blistersteel

Wet and dry sand paper on a granite tile from Lowes/home depot. or use loose grain silicon carbide powder on the aforementioned tile in the place of sandpaper..... or use a diamond hone .

That's the answer, or even float glass as the base.

silicon carbide powder works as well if not better than the sand paper.

Much better, IMO.

Can anyone point me to prior discussion on speculation of what the stones actually are?

Anyone with any clue on fineness vs. something like a y/g escher or other stone that is well known and consistent?

These are very soft stones, do not use Silicon Carbide you run the risk of imbedding grit into the stone, Wet & Dry 320 on a cookie sheet and a flat piece of cement floor or better yet, a Diamond plate.

There are a lot of good, inexpensive Diamond plates now and if you are planning on honing, a 50 dollar investment for a quality plate, is cheap for the dividends it will repay.

If you are finishing, use lite slurry and dilute to clear water or you may find yourself going backwards.
Don’t get caught up in hair test, they have nothing to do with the shave.

Slurry is an art form, some slurry will continue to breakdown and finish at a higher grit than the stone, but some don’t and then bang against the edge, dulling it, going backwards.

You have to experiment to find a combination that works best for your particular razor. Always use lite pressure, heavy pressure with slurry will micro-chip an edge, and then you have to hone past that edge to get to good steel.

These are fun stones, but I doubt they are close to 12K, much less 15K. They can finish and produce a shaving edge, in the right hands.

The morning shave was noticeably better than my normal shave off the 8K, but no huge difference.There is a spot along my neck where the razor use to skip a bit with most shaves. That same section on my neck shaved very smoothly this morning, and that was the most noticeable difference. For my first go around with this hone, I'm pleased. For less than $40.00 shipped, I got a better edge with not much experience on this hone. I can only assume that with more experience things will improve.

I tired producing a slurry from the corner, but got nervous about scratching up the hone, so abandoned that approach. Glad to hear my instincts were not far off. Are you using the long corner to start the slurry, or the tip of the slurry stone? How much pressure are you applying initially with the slurry stone on the edge?

As for the HHT, although it isn't a judge of 'shave readiness', for me, it's a quick test of how the edge is progressing. It primarily answers the question "Is it getting sharper". As a noob, that's important to me while my technique is improving. The report of the razor passing through a single hair also provides some feedback as to where the edge is. I believe that performing a HHT, using hair from the same place and type can supply some usable information. I'm still a newbie, so my opinions are subject to change.

Originally Posted by Slurryer

As for the HHT, although it isn't a judge of 'shave readiness', for me, it's a quick test of how the edge is progressing. It primarily answers the question "Is it getting sharper". As a noob, that's important to me while my technique is improving. The report of the razor passing through a single hair also provides some feedback as to where the edge is. I believe that performing a HHT, using hair from the same place and type can supply some usable information. I'm still a newbie, so my opinions are subject to change.

I agree, I find the HHT useful. One thing to keep in mind though is that a thoothy edge will pass the HHT better than a smooth one. For me a good HHT does not mean I will get a good shave, but I've never had a good close shave where the HHT was poor.

Learn to hone on synthetic stones, once you have mastered honing, then experiment with Natural finish stones.
Adding a Natural stone, especially a slurring slate, is adding way too many variables to learning to hone.

Add to that an unreliable and completely unquantifiable “Test” and you are really extending your learning curve.
Minimize you variables and use proven, consistent and repeatable methods or you will be chasing your tail.

Learn to set a bevel and perfect a fool proof, 100 percent reliable test of when a bevel is set, like a visual test, by looking straight down on the bevel with magnification, looking for when the bevels are not meeting, then simply remove the previous stria with each progression, without damaging the edge.

You don’t even know what the grit of this stone is and if it is capable of improving the edge.

8K is all you need, once you have mastered that then look for something higher, most probably your Natural is not even 8K.

I have been honing for over 40 years and I could not tell the difference in the sound of an 8 or 12K edge cutting a hair. I defy anyone to, in a blind test… more importantly… it does not matter.

It means nothing, even if you could.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Learn to hone on synthetic stones, once you have mastered honing, then experiment with Natural finish stones.
Adding a Natural stone, especially a slurring slate, is adding way too many variables to learning to hone.

Add to that an unreliable and completely unquantifiable “Test” and you are really extending your learning curve.
Minimize you variables and use proven, consistent and repeatable methods or you will be chasing your tail.

Learn to set a bevel and perfect a fool proof, 100 percent reliable test of when a bevel is set, like a visual test, by looking straight down on the bevel with magnification, looking for when the bevels are not meeting, then simply remove the previous stria with each progression, without damaging the edge.

You don’t even know what the grit of this stone is and if it is capable of improving the edge.

8K is all you need, once you have mastered that then look for something higher, most probably your Natural is not even 8K.

I have been honing for over 40 years and I could not tell the difference in the sound of an 8 or 12K edge cutting a hair. I defy anyone to, in a blind test… more importantly… it does not matter.

It means nothing, even if you could.

I honestly appreciate the advice and see the value in it. I'm probably taking myself a lot less seriously than you may be. I will stand by the observation that I noticed differences in cutting through single hairs with one razor pre La Roccia hone and post La Roccia hone. It's that so unimaginable. In the shadow of 40 years of experience I would probably be as unimpressed as you. But in the infancy of a whopping two months honing experience, what may be superseded by years of accumulated knowledge to you, still is valuable to me, as well as others more senior than myself. Like I said earlier, let's have this conversation again in a year and I may totally agree with you. But today you are talking to a noob who will likely believe what he believes until he has seen the proof or dis-proof himself. If the HHT is worthless, I'll figure it out with a little help from my friends. ...and thanks for the help.

Originally Posted by dickerydee

silicon carbide powder works as well if not better than the sand paper.

Would it work better than a dmt 320 plate? I have a hone stone that needs hell of a lapping job due to stone's hardness and the amount of unlevelness.