Thread: Please school me on natural hones

Originally Posted by Basetta70

it will be cheaper to buy a small one but usually the result is harder to reach and at the end you will discover that a bigger stone works better and you have wasted money on the small one.
THere is nothing more expensive than cheaper tools.

Basetta i accept you personal experience here, but i personally cant share it. I get the same results with very small stones on all types of naturals....

I own several big sized Thuris and other stones, and yes its kinda "comfortable". But the same result i get with the big one can easily be reached with a 10cmx2,5cm stone....in the end it depends on your learned tecnique and knowledge to use a smaller and narrow stone...

If you have patience, wait until Hatzicho throws another Vintage Thuringian on the Classifieds. He generally sells them for a steal and the stone itself will be top shelf. You'll have to check often...... they don't last long.

Well a nagura set and a koppa sized Jnat is doable for sure. There is a learning curve though, you would benefit from some one on one to get you going. Eschers are so easy but you still need something to get you ready for it, either synths to 12k or so or a good coticule. You can go from 8k to escher although I find with my dark blue escher I prefer going to 15k then escher. A decent koppa will run $100 more or less and a nagura set can be in that range as well. But you would be able to go from 1k to finish, a matched tomo nagura would help you as well. Good luck!

Doorsh of course it's my personal experience and thoughts.
I feel that if the "scratches" on the edge have an angle due to the angled strokes the razor will cut "less" in the other directions but the sharpening angle.

There are many ways you can go. To help you narrow it a little you can get a budget number and then wonder about what fits in that number. On the high end you can find very predictable labeled vintage hones. They would be Eschers, Japanese naturals, and Coticules. The Eschers are a small field and easy to navigate but very big money. The Coticules and Jnats you need to buy from someone that knows the hones and knows your intent. The new hones tend to be a little more price conscious as there are some out there for low entry dollars. Currently there are some slates from the UK and the Chinese hone and the Zulu and the Apache. Those are the ones being commercially produced. There are a number of rock hounds that will make hones here and there. There is also the vintage hones from the UK. I know little about most of them, other than they are there. I have a couple of labeled Eschers and a couple of Coticules that were picked for me. I think that if you were to go to one of the larger meets you would find a lot of them there and the people who have them would show you and tell you all about them. That is actually the best place for most to start their natural hone obsession. It is a long rabbit hole in general. There are a few that find what they like and stay the path. Good luck.

Affordable, is the key word.

You will spend at least twice the price of a 12k super stone with a small chance of improving a 12k super stone edge. I have never heard of anyone regretting that purchase. Naturals are all different some wildly, from one side to the other.

The 12k super stone is fool proof, if you can get an edge from an 8k, better 12k edges are easily within your grasp.
Yes you can go small to go cheap, but then you are asking for more problems.

If you insist on a natural, probably a Thüringen is your best bet, nice ones can be had in the 100-150 dollar price range and are almost as bullet proof in performance as a Super Stone 12K.

All said, get the 12k Super Stone and master it, then, when you do get a natural, you will at least have something to shoot for. Don’t go the cheap route, small or stones du jour… that is just rolling the dice.

If you desperately feel the need to jump down the natural hone well, your best first gamble is a "natural water stone" from Woodcraft. It is a Chinese hone from the Guangxi region. It is wrongly called a 12k, which it is not given that it is a natural hone, but it can be a very good finisher. The reality is that whenever you buy a natural hone you are taking a chance--it may be a good one and it may not.

If all you want is a very good edge, just stick with synthetics.
The only reason to insist on natural stones is the romance of working with something unique, produced by mother earth.
I have a 500$ nakayama stone that is very good. I like the edges it produces as a finisher.
I don't use it anymore because my 16K Shapton produces euqally nice edges and is easier to use.

A known good natural stone will cost you a lot of money. A synthetic will cost you a fraction of that.
Even coticules, which used to be cheap, aren't anymore.

Insisting that you need a mega costly natural finisher is like and audiophile insisting that he needs those ridiculously expensive gold plated cables to make the music sound good.

Yes to what everyone else said. First set your budget. Second go up one level, which most would agree is a Thuri. Most important stay off Ebay when looking for one. Doorsch has given honest insights on this stone. Ask the members which VENDOR to seek out. People whom we the community deal with and stand behind their product. That said , naturals are a piece of Gods earth that have to be figured out to a greater or lesser degree. Synthetics are a get wet and hone repeatable every-time.

Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003

[snip] That said , naturals are a piece of Gods earth that have to be figured out to a greater or lesser degree. Synthetics are a get wet and hone repeatable every-time.

If you use naturals as finishers exclusively, most are very predictable too: add water and do about 50 X strokes and you'll have an edge with a finish that represents the last stone you used (at least coticules, thuringians and japanese naturals suitable for finishing do).

And I'll keep saying it: I have finished (honed, as well) plenty of razors on plenty of BBW's. I couldn't distinguish a good BBW edge from a good coticule edge if I tried (nor from a good Thüringer edge either, by the way). On the most minimal amount of slurry, that is, not only water.