Thread: Honing Question

Hi, I have a question.
Why is it considered better practice to hone with less strokes rather than more?
I have recently cut down my honing regime to fewer strokes , just enough to replace the previous scratch marks but the end result is an unacceptable edge, even though the bevel looks great.
I look forward to your replies , thanks untold amounts

Well the rational is to conserve steel. If you are not achieving a sharable edge you are not going far enough. Perhaps it's more about your optics and use of them than it is about the number of strokes done.

The number of strokes depends on the blade, some take less some take more.
In general we do not want to do more strokes than needed on the next level. I go by visual clues to determine when I am ready to move to the next grit.

Keeping this a simple as possible


Keep in mind we are talking about Sub-Micron measurements here.

You want to "Sneak Up" on the final edge, so starting at the bevel set you want to get the two side to kiss and become one sharp point without going past that (this takes however many laps as it takes).. If you keep honing away steel you start to dig deeper into the steel BEHIND the Fin, this weakens the very edge and will lead to a harsh/fragile edge.. This is also why we tend to tell people to ease up on pressure and try to not go below the 1k hone when setting the bevel (there are tricks for Edge Restoration that have little to do with honing)
You are trying to create a full smooth bevel with the most shallow of scratches you can possibly get..
As you start to climb the grit ladder again you simply are trying to gently remove the deeper scratches and smooth up the full bevel, remember they is only so much steel to remove, so you want to slowly remove it and smooth the bevel..


Remember that on most razors that the bevel is actually quite flexible, so it is very possible to cut steel behind the Fin, try not to do that

Gently smoothly slowly, is the trick to a nice edge

at least IME

So there is a common trap, what does the bevel look like (Polished bevel)?

What matters is the edge, yes the smoother the bevel, the straighter the edge, (Generally), but a smooth bevel with a jagged edge does you no good. Deep stria will make a jagged edge.

First look at the edge, are the bevels meeting, straight and chip free.

Remember you will not get a super straight edge until after an 8K, so don’t waste steel trying to do so at 1-4k.

At 8k you need enough pressure and laps to remove stria and straighten the edge. You have to look at both the edge and the bevel.

If you go too far, just joint the edge, (lightly drag the edge on the corner of the stone), and re set it on a high grit stone (8K). You don’t have to go back to 1k

Thanks guys,
I'll tell you why I ask.
I've been given some advise by a pro, that is to set the bevel then set the bevel again, to make sure its set.
This lead me to believe that you cannot overset the bevel, so I have been super setting the bevel for want no a better expression. However this has lead to my edges being weak and unstable.
Also to do minimal strokes, just enough to replace the scratches.
So I guess I'm just spending way too much time over setting the bevel which in turn means no matter what I do there after the edge is still weak from too much 1k.
And I suppose when you change so many aspects at once its hard to figure out where the problem is.

I think that if someone told me that I would think that they meant I should kill the edge and then do it again. One the bevel is set I can't think of how you could set it a second time without first killing it. A stroke on the edge of a glass or the bottom of a cup, along the side of a hone, a finger nail. Those all kill the edge allowing you to set it again, and by doing so I think the point is to straighten the edge. I do believe it was in a recent thread that I can't think of the name of. If I am off base I hope someone corrects me, I believe Glen was one of the people in that thread so maybe he can speak up on this.

Here is the thing and I have written it numerous times, but every one wants the magic honing pill and the shortcut.. There isn't one, if you want to get good then hone more razors

Here is a trick to judge yourself by, and to learn what each hone does, it isn't fun, it takes a lot of time, and most people don't want to do that..

1k bevel set, Using all the tests that work for you, get the bevel set, watch the wave of water in front of the edge, don't get so light that the wave slips under the edge, that isn't doing anything for you, many of us that have been doing this for a long time talk about "Torqueing" the edge into the stone as we hone. There is no real way of explaining it, much like a Scything Stroke while shaving, you just sort of learn as you go..

Once you are sure that the bevel is set do, 20 laps on a leather strop, go shave, get a feel for the edge at 1k, can't shave ??? then you are honing wrong.. The edge is so close to the maximum keenness after a solid bevel set that there is not even .20 Microns left for you to get out of it... You have seen people shave with Axes and Knives on Youtube don't even tell me your razor at 1k isn't as sharp..

Now move to the next stone and get smoother and lighter, watch the wave of water it should start riding up on the bevel because the edge is undercutting it.. Don't let the wave slide under, keep the pressure just heavy enough and the torque toward the edge so that it doesn't happen that teaches you about proper pressure and how to maintain a proper even stroke.. Now after the edge feels good and looks good do 20 Laps on leather and go shave... Did it get smoother, can you feel a difference??? No ??? the you are honing wrong... go try again

Rinse and repeat as up climb your honing Ladder


Some things to be careful of

Setting a HARD bevel (I think you called it Super Setting), or dropping below 1k or using pressure to raise a burr,,, Don't

There is a distinct difference between Edge Restoration and Honing and there are several tricks that work so you don't burn through the steel..
If it takes hours then it takes hours, so what, you don't need to rush..

Trying to get so light on the stone that you are allowing the water to slip under the edge, Don't

The not so bad thing that will happen is you are not achieving anything, the bad thing that can happen is that you are hitting the steel behind the Fin and you are weakening the edge

Over finishing, why the heck would you need multiple finishers if you did you job right before the finisher ????,,

Again there is this tiny miniscule amount of edge and you want to keep messing with it ??? does that makes any sense at all ??? Sneak up to the edge and then leave the poor thing alone to do it's job and shave your beard..

Killing the edge, Jointing the edge, Downstroking the edge,

Yes it works, no every edge doesn't need it, IMHO...
Keep in mind that doing a TNT is a gentle form of Killing the edge and tests the bevel at the same time, try that little trick out you might find a new level of smooth..




Once you take the time to test the edge at each stage you should learn quite a bit about honing, everything else is just practice,,, tricks are just tricks, they help sometimes and sometimes they don't..

Learning to read the edge before you even start the first honing stroke is a great talent to have Hint Hint


That's all I got for now hope some of it helps

Damn, Glen, every time I read what you just said my mind goes back over my 1k to 8k journey. If an old fart like me can be astonished and amazed and achieve a working edge, one stage at a time, then all those young whippersnappers that want to start at the finish need to face reality and listen to someone that's been there, done that, and get their nose down to the grindstone (pun, if it is, is intended). Slow goes the race, which isn't a race if it starts as a personal challenge and not as a feat to impress your peers.

Thanks for your advise.
I have definitely been cutting the steel behind the fin and I will put a stop to that
As soon as the bevel is set I will stop with the 1k.
Honing truly is a masterful art and I wont stop until im the best there ever was or will be