Thread: Salm Rock/Old Rock Coti's vs Other vintage Coticules

$250 is generally not what you will be paying from Ardennes.... Hell, I was quoted well under €100 for a few different les lat bouts a few weeks ago.... Even if you were stuck with a coti that only ate up the mid range grits, it would be a deal as good synths aren't exactly cheap.

The stones are different shapes, so it's really hard to make the comparison. The one thing they both have in common is that they can be unstable over their lifetimes.

The idea that jnats are expensive is not true, but most people don't know much about the low cost ones. If a low cost one is desirable, something a bit short that would still cost a mint in the land of cotis can be had. I had the ozuku koppa, which was about 6x3 from CKTG and it was $69. It was keener than any coticule I've ever used, though it definitely did not slurry easily. A tomonagura or something to generate slurry would be necessary. I did keep that stone and cut it up for naguras (a true jnat fan is going to find it odd to cut up a hard stone for naguras, but you can cross hatch the surface of the hardest stones with a hacksaw blade and still get them to release slurry).

I have never had a maruka stamp stone, I think there is a good chance that the bulk of them are fake, and a great chance that they are not better than the jnats I already have.

The stones on ebay right now sold as "shoubu damascus asagi" can be had in 8x3 by very thick for about $200. There's nothing close to that in coti in terms of size vs. dollars. I could go out to ebay and flip my old rock coti for $15. it's almost NOS and the label is bright and it's a beautiful stone, but a beginner would be far better off with koppa and a cheap tomonagura.

What you won't find much of is jnat stones that are 5 inches long and 1.25 inches wide like the tiny cotis that are inexpensive. What you also won't find is $4 flea market stones, and sometimes you can find cotis in older cities at flea markets for a few bucks, so you do have that with cotis.

I bought one coti from ardennes, a 7+ inch long natural combo that was $225. It was a dud. I'm sure they have some decent stones, but I sold it for a loss because I didn't have the heart to charge someone much for it.

I have had one single dud jnat, but it wasn't sold as a razor stone. It was a stone where someone lied about its fineness 10 years ago, and it proved not to be a good tool stone. Every stone I've bought from someone who knows enough to call it a razor stone has been fabulous, and some I've bought just based on looks where the seller had no grade have also been excellent.

Disburden did sell me a coticule that he described as spectacular, and it was. That was my one excellent one. It wasn't cheap, it was 9x2, natural vintage combo and it was $325. And worth it. There are some.

At any rate, jnats are mentioned because when you say "something works, but not well enough compared to other known finishers", you have to set the bar with something. Eschers and razor graded japanese stones are there. Hard arks are there (a bit trickier to use than the two prior), and I'm sure there are a lot of others.

I'd love to try an LPB coti, but they sound like they are a lot like jasper (glassy with an aggressive slurry), and they are probably similar in chemical makeup if they are quartzish stuff. I can't justify one to fiddle with since even the little ones cost several hundred dollars, and a jasper slab costs $15.

I'd be the first to admit that coticules above all other stones are the biggest case of diminishing returns as you move up in size. Nat combos that you don't find in the wild are a waste as well as the bbw is usually a bit crap to work with. Only exception is if you want a vein that is always naturally bound to bbw. If you have the budget to buy a massive one, you are better splitting it between a more conservative one and something else interesting or just saving your cash altogether. I like holding my stones when I hone so I tend to like ones that suit it. 5x2.5" is my favorite size, but I also like 6x1.5.

I wouldn't say any of these are better than the other besides absolute sharpness. You can get a great shave off of any of them, they just have different character. I don't necessarily care if a blade isn't as sharp as the steel can be pushed if it is shaving comfortably and very well.

But going back to something like old rock, the reason they sell at such a premium besides reputation is that the vein is not longer being exploited and shows no signs of being mined in the future. The family that controls it doesn't seem to want to make any deals for commercial exploitation at this time so if you want one and want to know it is the real deal, you need a stamped example, and those are finite in the world. It's no different than a stamped escher selling for such a great premium.

I agree on the 5x2.5 coti. It's a lovely size, especially in a natural combo hone.

I'm sitting here poo-pooing the cotis, but there's no guarantee I won't buy another one in the future if I see a really pretty natural combo in that size (a vintage nat combo, not a lagrise...btdt,it's like honing on a rubber seat belt). That's the size of my deep rock coti. I'd have to be a dummy to do it, but I sold the best one I've ever had on the notion that "i'm cutting down the number that I have".

that notion never lasts, though. If I thought there was a reason the LPB would be substantially different from jasper, I'd try one, even at the cost.