Thread: Pressure!

Originally Posted by trenchy

Hi all.

So I have this old sheffield I am trying to save.

It has had some funky honing (uneven bevel and hone wear on the spine) done to it (the poor bugger!) and I'm getting close to sorting it but I need a final bit of a push/advice from you guys.

So - first of all it had a slight frown. I breadknifed it on my Shapton glass 500 which took it down in no time. I did some circles with the spine raised until I got an edge that looked ok (I never seem to be able to set a bevel that cuts arm hair etc, even though once fully honed with the same hones, my other razors all come out sweet). So I markered the bevel, and went to my standard rolling x strokes. I kept going until all the marker on the edge of the bevel was gone.

By doing all this, I found a sharp edge (although at a steeper angle), then flattened out that angle to a normal honing angle. The only thing is, I needed a lot of pressure in certain spots.

All my other razors have never needed any pressure, and so what i'm asking is:

When do you stop using pressure? Everyone says that by the time you get to a 8k or whatever hone, you should be using light strokes, yet if I do that certain parts of the blade don't get honed by the stone (I know because it got to the point where I'm marking the bevel between every hone). Just let me say at this point that my usual strokes with light pressure have done the job wonderfully on all my other razors.

I could use lots of pressure to hit those parts throughout honing, but id rather ask advice before I do anything stupid or make the matter worse.

Any advice please? What do you guys do in this situation?

Thanks

Trenchy

Set the bevel, once that is done you have contact between bevel and stone on the whole length of the bevel as you draw your strokes. Once the bevel is set you start going lighter on the hones. You can still use some pressure on the 3k, but as long as you have bevel set it is just a matter of time to remove the scratches from the previous grit level. Synthetics are pretty quick so it does not take long to get to 8-12k after the bevel is set.

Once again the "Thin hone" myth raises it's head

There is no difference between the two surfaces, the idea that a thinner hone makes honing a smiling or geometrically challenged razor easier or more effective is a myth..
It is hard to convince people of this until you understand that it is the actual gymnastics of the stroke that makes one think it is easier..

Simply take a 3 inch hone draw a line down the side at 1 or 1.5 inches from the edge and keep the razor inside that constraint while honing, that will let you understand that it is the movement (gymnastics) of the stroke that creates the effectiveness..

You are still honing on a flat surface and the contact is still the same .. Honest it really is, try it and see, it will help to dispel the myth... There is no advantage to a thinner hone... (that isn't saying it is a disadvantage either)

Pressure: Watch the water ahead of the edge, you have to apply enough pressure and/or "Torque" to keep the water ripple moving ahead of or over the top of the edge, if you lose the ripple you are no longer honing the edge.. You will learn to adjust the pressure so that you are using the minimal amount needed to ride that wave...

It is only the same if the razor edge is flat or convex. I will draw a picture later to illustrate exactly why this "thin hone myth" is not a myth in any way, fashion or form. A frowning or concave warped razor will take far longer to make full contact with a wider stone - more steel will need to be removed to do so. If you want to use only the corner of the stone to do most of the work, then it's a different story.

Honest it really is a myth you can argue it and try and dispel it all you want,,

You can draw and theorize all you want too... BUT Simply take your wide hone and only use 1 inch of it and it will all make sense it is the "Stroke" not the hone...

There are dozens of threads about it on here, simply try it and learn I know it seems as if it is logical that a thin hone works easier and if you can't relate the stroke over to a wide hone then yes it is easier "FOR YOU".. But there honestly is no difference once you realize it is all in the gymnastics of the stroke

With all due respect, no, honest it's not. You can not possibly only use the 1" or whatever of the wider hone you "marked off" on a razor with a frown or concave warp if the stone is flat unless you lift the toe out of contact with the stone and use only the corner of the stone - it's physically impossible to do so. The concavity of the razor will hold it off of the hone at the 1" mark because the end of the razor will be hitting on the hone farther over on the toe side. Think about it.

The same exact thing will happen with the narrow hone but there will be less of a gap due to the concavity because the distance between points on the "radius" of the concavity is less. Thus less steel needs to be removed to make full contact.

Can't explain it much clearer than this:



As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone.

Edit: just noticed I forgot a 'g' in exaggerated also... D'oh!

Originally Posted by eKretz

Can't explain it much clearer than this:As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone.

That's not the way it works on wide stones, you have to keep the razor inside the marked line.

Originally Posted by eKretz

Can't explain it much clearer than this:

As you can see, there is no physically possible magic or gymnastical stroke that will let you use only the marked off narrow bit of the wide stone.

I also expected these drawings & they show your premise is fundamentally flawed. There are no warped razors that are so bad that they only contact 2 such small points on a wide stone. If any existed they should be melted down for a new start.

Warped razors will always have spine wear that levels the warp giving a far less radical arc to deal with. Once that bevel is set it is simply a matter of folowing the spine, wide or narrow hone, doesn't matter.

Argue for your limitations & you stay limited. I too have a bunch of narrow hones that I used to use when I believed as you do. They now make good slurry stones.