Thread: Apache Black Gila

so i was snooping around apache's site (really i was looking for a red stone for prefinishing/HAD reasons) and ... yea they had one of these in stock it was really shiny. so i guess my question is anyone here have any experience with these yet as far as what to expect (looks hard like jasper but thats all i can tell from pictures) at worst i got a really pretty rock .

I too just picked one of these up from Terry, and would be interested in any information out there.

Hmm, so far it looks like you two guys are IT for the critique. Those are handsome stones for sure. Looking forward to your reports and Pictures.

Originally Posted by FAL

Hmm, so far it looks like you two guys are IT for the critique. Those are handsome stones for sure. Looking forward to your reports and Pictures.

Right lol? I'm not sure what the rules are for posting links, but I found one guy on another site who has one, as well as a few other guys who had the same stone before him (the price keeps going up for it lol!!). I actually got the stone that stone was cut from, so mine is a known good specimen from my understanding lol.

This one is mine:



And this is the one that has made the rounds...drawing praise as a rival to vintage Eschers and Thuri's lol:



Mine should be here next week. I'll have to dress it and such (he sent it rough for me to finish out myself)...but I'm not worried about that at all .

Originally Posted by culhanetyl

so i was snooping around apache's site (really i was looking for a red stone for prefinishing/HAD reasons) and ... yea they had one of these in stock it was really shiny. so i guess my question is anyone here have any experience with these yet as far as what to expect (looks hard like jasper but thats all i can tell from pictures) at worst i got a really pretty rock .

Keith at tomonagura.com has a great write up on this stone and its cousins. He would be the guy to contact about this stone. He tests lots of naturals. Hope this helps.

The Black Gila I see are usually red/brown streaked with the majority black, didn't realize the color varied so much.

I have one and know a couple of ppl with them. It actually does feel like an ark to hone on, but refinement is much, much faster. Pressure sensitive stone. I think a glycerin water mix or a water soluble solution or even oil is the way to go here, but water works all the same. I just prefer the feel of the former with this. You don't get audio tells with it, but the undercut and almost a feeling of heavy draw develops as you are refining the edge and polishing the bevel. Like an ark, great with Sheffield steel and less nerve wracking because of the much lower lap could lowering the chance for a slip up. I'm sure a slip up would kill an edge with this to the starts. It seems savagely hard. It seems like some weird halfway house between a few extremely hard things

Call me a cynic, but I'm not seeing anything that would categorize an unknown hone with no history as being a $400 razor hone (based on the price comment on the page - it looks like the ones for sale are a bill or so less than that).

Especially when dans often sells an 8x2 black or translucent stone for $100-$125 in their seconds bin. Koppa of known japanese mines, and of great quality are less. Jasper is almost free.

I've been approached a couple of times (not by the seller of these stones) about unlabeled stones that someone would like $500 for, and all I can say is you'd better like them, because if the seller sells them, there will be no benchmark for price and you may be stuck with them unless you want to take a big loss.

I don't know who Keith V is or if he's a member on this forum, if he is, I guess I'll burn a few bridges. I had a long drawn-out discussion with him on youtube where he implied there was something special about a black arkansas stone because it was "a surgical black, and not just a black". There is no difference, it is just a marketing term. Beware of fancy names of things and self-appointed experts. And beware of the marketing model for this stuff. Dig up a stone, polish it, send it to an expert, and then post it on your page when they say they like the stone. It's not as if any of these stones do anything new compared to what's already available.

There are GOBS of super finishing stones in the $100 range, and if I were going to pay big money for a stone, I'd want a long history of them costing a lot and having been used for razors.

He thoroughly tests lots of different "new" razor stones and as far as I've seen always calls it like he sees it. Some he likes, some he doesn't, and that's just one mans opinion but it's a helpful starting point for people considering buying a specific stone. I know 3 guys that I talk to regularly that have and love the new Apache black and I value and trust their opinions, but I haven't and probably won't buy one simply because I'm happy with where I am and what I have now. I read where the owner explained the pricing of these stones and said they weren't mined, but had to be found laying in a very harsh and dangerous climate and that for any less money it wouldn't be worth his time. Can't blame him for that. I don't like working for free either. Not everybody wants to pay big money for experimental stones, and if you're one of those people, then don't. To me it's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Call me a cynic, but I'm not seeing anything that would categorize an unknown hone with no history as being a $400 razor hone (based on the price comment on the page - it looks like the ones for sale are a bill or so less than that).

Especially when dans often sells an 8x2 black or translucent stone for $100-$125 in their seconds bin. Koppa of known japanese mines, and of great quality are less. Jasper is almost free.

I've been approached a couple of times (not by the seller of these stones) about unlabeled stones that someone would like $500 for, and all I can say is you'd better like them, because if the seller sells them, there will be no benchmark for price and you may be stuck with them unless you want to take a big loss.

I don't know who Keith V is or if he's a member on this forum, if he is, I guess I'll burn a few bridges. I had a long drawn-out discussion with him on youtube where he implied there was something special about a black arkansas stone because it was "a surgical black, and not just a black". There is no difference, it is just a marketing term. Beware of fancy names of things and self-appointed experts. And beware of the marketing model for this stuff. Dig up a stone, polish it, send it to an expert, and then post it on your page when they say they like the stone. It's not as if any of these stones do anything new compared to what's already available.

There are GOBS of super finishing stones in the $100 range, and if I were going to pay big money for a stone, I'd want a long history of them costing a lot and having been used for razors.

Dave W!!! where have you been friend?

I'll agree with you on them being over priced and join you in the cynic section. I wouldn't pay ^$300 for any stone especially if it hasn't been thoroughly tested and proved efficient at honing razors by more then a few "non-honemeisters".