Thread: Narutaki Jnat

Originally Posted by DaveW

I think the reviews you mentioned summed up most narutaki stones. Uniform and a bit slow cutting. If I had to pick stones out of a hat and one said nakayama and one said narutaki, I'd pay more to pick one out of the nakayama hat, especially if it had to sharpen more than razors.

Razor only, it might not matter so much if you're sharpening only your own.

100% agree. Out of 5 Narutaki stones I owe 4 behave almost the same, the feedback is somewhat glassy, unlike the soft feeling of Nakayamas even the hard ones, but in return this narutaki is finer than any Nakayama I have ever seen, it leave a very polished and refined edge even under high magnification.

For the price of these Awasedos, the are unbeatable, this one is as fine as my Ozuku which cost three times the amount of the Narutaki.

Originally Posted by AljuwaiedAK

100% agree. Out of 5 Narutaki stones I owe 4 behave almost the same, the feedback is somewhat glassy, unlike the soft feeling of Nakayamas even the hard ones, but in return this narutaki is finer than any Nakayama I have ever seen, it leave a very polished and refined edge even under high magnification.

Very broad statement (in red). Nakayama what ? Asagi, Kiita, Namito, Suita... ?
I generally wouldn't use the word soft & Nakayama Asagi in the same sentence
Of course any Awasedo, even Suita, can make a good razor stone but not all can.
A polished and refined edge can be achieved with a prepolisher or even Nagura but it does not make the stone a razor finisher.

For the price of these Awasedos, the are unbeatable, this one is as fine as my Ozuku which cost three times the amount of the Narutaki.
Luck of the draw. You may also need to buy 3x as many Narutaki stones to find one equal to an Oozuku. Generally Narutaki are not in the league of a good Oozuku or Nakayama but the exceptions can of course be ... exceptional.

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Basically, don't buy an inexpensive Jnat thinking you might luck onto a super finisher. Sure it's possible just not probable.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

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Basically, don't buy an inexpensive Jnat thinking you might luck onto a super finisher. Sure it's possible just not probable.

Sage advice for sure. There are bargains though, Takeda's $90 Nakayama koppas seemed to be, I have two and they're both great razor hones, the ones I posted above. RusenBG tells me Takeda is OOS on these currently.

I've been buying, trading, and selling on a small scale for 6-7 years now, and can say I've only gotten "lucky" once and although the stone was not that cheap, it is considerably finer than it was described to be. I have one more that I consider underpriced for what it is, but it was also not exactly cheap.

Max's Shobus have a good reputation and are cheap for razor finishers. And generally hard gray stones aren't expensive and many work great with a diamond plate for slurry. They're also good for Mikawa nagura use.

Another thoght is to source some narrow stones. I have two that are exceptional and one was quite cheap. People hone on small or narrow coticules and Thuringians all the time, but a small or narrow JNat dosn't get the same love - except from me!

Cheers, Steve

First of all i dont like the diamond nagura slurry as is too coarse and gets fine slower than the normal - it is good if you whant to skipp or miss the midle grit stones.
it works fine with the Sir Alex Gilmore system as this is the old system - bevell setter and finisher .
I prefer to make a slurry with a piece of jasper or another fine and very hard stone , so the slury has a real caracteristic or the main stone .
There is a prefinishers, that , gives super shaving edge as they are chameleon stones . They adapt superbly , with the honing style , and the Jnats are in this category .
They work superb after setting bevel ,they are above medium hardness levell , and on plain watter they do not auto slurry so you can finish and make gordgeous edge on plain watter .
That kind of stone that i need a fine prefinisher and finisher . Super fine finishers i have and the thing is that the the super fine conventional hones aways end up as a slightly dulling the edge sharpness and gives big smoothness
Ive shave almost an year and a half ith this kind of blades and i whant to try a diferent stone
Chameleon stone that refine the edge super and didnt polish it to mirror under magnification
Only a super fune cerated edge ,gives that sharpness and finess that Gnats give and Esher thuries and other ultrafine conventional stones
Now i have a big box full of all of those so im guessing that the HAD is amashing my sick mind
The thing is that i whant to try a diferent stones - from the Jnats ,
and a double action chameleon stones - Maybe the Tomae statta is a good cheap choise ,maybe not , but i searching for more stones that makes edge like ive tell you . i have few of them , still searching for a new one

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Very broad statement (in red). Nakayama what ? Asagi, Kiita, Namito, Suita... ?
I generally wouldn't use the word soft & Nakayama Asagi in the same sentence
Of course any Awasedo, even Suita, can make a good razor stone but not all can.

Hi onimaru55,

As said the feeling of the blade on the Nakayama’s is soft or creamy ( if you prefer this word ) compared to Narutaki's and even Ozuku's I have observed this on my stones, now how do I interpret the feedback from my stones might be different from what you would say about them, I haven’t tested many Nakayama’s I owe only three and couple of Koppa's nevertheless the feedback is very consistence at least to me, to make my statement more precise here is the Nakayama’s that I build my opinion on (all are hard and can be used as final polishers for razors)

Originally Posted by onimaru55

A polished and refined edge can be achieved with a prepolisher or even Nagura but it does not make the stone a razor finisher.

Agree, prepolishers and Naguras leave a polished and refined edge, but what i said was "a very polished and refined edge even under high magnification", now if you can achieve this with your prepolishers or Naguras why you would ever need to get a finisher ? also what does make the stone a razor finisher if "a very polished and refined edge even under high magnification" does not ?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Luck of the draw. You may also need to buy 3x as many Narutaki stones to find one equal to an Oozuku. Generally Narutaki are not in the league of a good Oozuku or Nakayama but the exceptions can of course be ... exceptional.

well, I’m very happy to be that lucky with my stone. yes, a lot have the same idea the Narutaki is inferior to Ozuku and Nakayama, honestly I can’t agree or disagree as I don’t think that I have enough experience with jnats, to make this judgment.

Originally Posted by RusenBG

First of all i dont like the diamond nagura slurry as is too coarse and gets fine slower than the normal - it is good if you whant to skipp or miss the midle grit stones.
it works fine with the Sir Alex Gilmore system as this is the old system - bevell setter and finisher .
I prefer to make a slurry with a piece of jasper or another fine and very hard stone , so the slury has a real caracteristic or the main stone .
There is a prefinishers, that , gives super shaving edge as they are chameleon stones . They adapt superbly , with the honing style , and the Jnats are in this category .
They work superb after setting bevel ,they are above medium hardness levell , and on plain watter they do not auto slurry so you can finish and make gordgeous edge on plain watter .
That kind of stone that i need a fine prefinisher and finisher . Super fine finishers i have and the thing is that the the super fine conventional hones aways end up as a slightly dulling the edge sharpness and gives big smoothness
Ive shave almost an year and a half ith this kind of blades and i whant to try a diferent stone
Chameleon stone that refine the edge super and didnt polish it to mirror under magnification
Only a super fune cerated edge ,gives that sharpness and finess that Gnats give and Esher thuries and other ultrafine conventional stones
Now i have a big box full of all of those so im guessing that the HAD is amashing my sick mind
The thing is that i whant to try a diferent stones - from the Jnats ,
and a double action chameleon stones - Maybe the Tomae statta is a good cheap choise ,maybe not , but i searching for more stones that makes edge like ive tell you . i have few of them , still searching for a new one

Hello RusenBG,

I think you will need to get one of these...



This is a Hard Ohhira Suita, it's not the hardest stone and can be slurred with a small true hard ark ( I too prefer to slurry my stones in the same manner )



As you can see even with knife ( stainless steel ) and a bit of pressure the stone does not auto slurry much, as most of what you see here is steel. this is a new stone in my collection and I haven’t unlocked all of it secrets yet, just yesterday I shaved with it edge I wasn’t very sure about it I even brought another razor just in case since the finish was hazy a bit, nevertheless the shave was amazing and the feel was very comfy no harshness at all.

the seller rated the stone 4 in hardness, however I believe it might be a bit harder than that.

Originally Posted by RusenBG

First of all i dont like the diamond nagura slurry as is too coarse and gets fine slower than the normal - it is good if you whant to skipp or miss the midle grit stones.
it works fine with the Sir Alex Gilmore system as this is the old system - bevell setter and finisher .
I prefer to make a slurry with a piece of jasper or another fine and very hard stone , so the slury has a real caracteristic or the main stone .
There is a prefinishers, that , gives super shaving edge as they are chameleon stones . They adapt superbly , with the honing style , and the Jnats are in this category .
They work superb after setting bevel ,they are above medium hardness levell , and on plain watter they do not auto slurry so you can finish and make gordgeous edge on plain watter .
That kind of stone that i need a fine prefinisher and finisher . Super fine finishers i have and the thing is that the the super fine conventional hones aways end up as a slightly dulling the edge sharpness and gives big smoothness
Ive shave almost an year and a half ith this kind of blades and i whant to try a diferent stone
Chameleon stone that refine the edge super and didnt polish it to mirror under magnification
Only a super fune cerated edge ,gives that sharpness and finess that Gnats give and Esher thuries and other ultrafine conventional stones
Now i have a big box full of all of those so im guessing that the HAD is amashing my sick mind
The thing is that i whant to try a diferent stones - from the Jnats ,
and a double action chameleon stones - Maybe the Tomae statta is a good cheap choise ,maybe not , but i searching for more stones that makes edge like ive tell you . i have few of them , still searching for a new one

Okudo suita, fast and fine. Something reasonably hard. All suita that have good characteristics are nice prefinishers and some can finish a razor. Okudo are usually the fastest cutting (care with all suitas also has to be taken to find one with a smooth surface if razors will be sharpened on them), shinden are the next but a bit more smooth feeling and less brash than okudo, and then everything else is behind them.

No guarantees, like anything else, fast cutting stones can come from elsewhere, etc.

There are a lot of mediocre tomae stones around (and not to offend anyone, but many from ohira and shobu since those are common right now) that don't cut very fast or fine.

Some of the woodworking retailers have been selling 30 size and 24 sized ohira tomae stones labeled as "ippon sen" for years, but when it comes down to it, they are uniform looking stones that aren't that great. A lot of the large shoubu stones are a little scratchy or have a characteristic of taking odd damage on teh surface, as if they fracture around any scratch lines, and then are very sticky feeling.

Good suita stones won't cut the finest edge, but they will have a very nice feel and not leave you with a mediocre feeling.

Japanese Natural Whetstone "Nakayama Tomae" 409G LV4 Razor Knife | eBay


I just give this one a GO .. Incoooooooming
Ha ha ha It is some tomae layer as i know , maybe Namito who knows ( only God and Alex Gilmore maybe )
The last wasnt a joke .
So it has a Kiita in it a good portion assagi color , an ocher color , the slurry looks very pasty and fine level 4
It has those Nakyama cracs and color in them , as some akapins have , it haz Nashiji patern - it haz everything for a very good stone .
Or not .
It look very consistent , and smooth
The size of 205 x 65 x 17 mm the skin on 2 sides and the...prise of 77 dolars shiped make him a winer
I have an awsome feelingabbout this stone . and my instinkts never lie me abbout stones
I think that this is the stone ive been looking for all of my ife
The pinkish - ocher - kiita mix make me fall in love , from the first moment i saw him
Well if someone has something to say , may speak , or keep quiet forever ( it is from a mouvie , i know )

Your instincts are better than mine if looks always show you what you want to know!!

I always wait until after the honing to try, but if the person selling them has honed razors with them and has a lot of exposure and likes what they do, it should be a good stone.

Well at least can tell me something good my frend if not a finisher it will be a fine prefinisher maybe