Thread: Aussie Coticles - FWIW

Hi Guys,
I was just perusing some of my favourite sites and found this
https://www.carbatec.com.au/sharpeni...nes-sizes-vary
I don't know what it is worth but it might be OK.
I got my PHIGs from them and they are great

bit small maybe ?

I got one of these few years ago for about half of what they're now asking and I thought it was expensive for the size.
I don't think Pfeil exercise a lot of care in selecting the stones for this line since the intention is not to hone razors. Mine has a few surface defects that render it unsuitable for our purposes but it's OK for small chisels and pocket knives. What it does shine at is as a "nagura" stone for a larger coticule - i.e. to raise a slurry and remove swarf. However, it's probably cheaper to buy a small bout from SRD or Ardennes Coticule for this purpose.

Originally Posted by Substance

bit small maybe ?

Or as Neil Miller would say "Rubbish"

Originally Posted by Maladroit

I got one of these few years ago for about half of what they're now asking and I thought it was expensive for the size.

If I understand the add right, they are either roughly 40 or 60 cm2 (their size indication was a bit confusing to me). If they mean the 280 gram stone is a bout size 8, AUS$ 78 seems okay. So does their price for the 200 gram, if it is a bout size 6 stone. A bit strange to differentiate by weight though, and the weights seem somewhat on the low side for those bout sizes; but then again, I don't have a small scale to check the weight on mine.

Personally, I would enquire about the approximate surface areas before making any purchase. If they are respectively 40 (BB6) and 60 cm2 (BB8), the prices seem legit (compared to Ardennes-coticule own prices for the standard coticules). I assume there is some sort of customer protection in Australia as well (14 day return).

Mine is 9.7 by 4 which gives 39 sq cm and it is clearly too small to hone a razor on. The 60 sq cm example could be marginally useful but the caveat I would urge potential buyers to bear in mind concerns the selection of material: as I mentioned, mine has surface defects that render razor honing hazardous, regardless of the impractical length.

The mass of the stones is not all that relevant: the one I've got is about 34 mm thick, 9 mm of which is slate backing. Others could be thinner or thicker but it won't affect the area of the honing surface

Originally Posted by Pithor

If I understand the add right, they are either roughly 40 or 60 cm2 (their size indication was a bit confusing to me). If they mean the 280 gram stone is a bout size 8, AUS$ 78 seems okay. So does their price for the 200 gram, if it is a bout size 6 stone. A bit strange to differentiate by weight though, and the weights seem somewhat on the low side for those bout sizes; but then again, I don't have a small scale to check the weight on mine.

Personally, I would enquire about the approximate surface areas before making any purchase. If they are respectively 40 (BB6) and 60 cm2 (BB8), the prices seem legit (compared to Ardennes-coticule own prices for the standard coticules). I assume there is some sort of customer protection in Australia as well (14 day return).

Ardennes has made statements about how they have learned to differentiate between what razor people want and what tool people want. I'd suspect that they are not going to be razor grade unless they have a surplus of clear stones.

As far as belgians go for tools, I've got a friend who was a toolmaker here and responsible for all of the trades at a museum and he could only recall one person using belgians, a carver. I have tried coticules on chisels and planes, and they just aren't as good for that as some other stones that are a whole lot cheaper (most of the synthetics, and the arkansas stones especially).

I'm not sure who is demanding those, or if they're just listing them to test the waters.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Ardennes has made statements about how they have learned to differentiate between what razor people want and what tool people want. I'd suspect that they are not going to be razor grade unless they have a surplus of clear stones.

As far as belgians go for tools, I've got a friend who was a toolmaker here and responsible for all of the trades at a museum and he could only recall one person using belgians, a carver. I have tried coticules on chisels and planes, and they just aren't as good for that as some other stones that are a whole lot cheaper (most of the synthetics, and the arkansas stones especially).

I'm not sure who is demanding those, or if they're just listing them to test the waters.

Years ago Sham posted a link to a book on google that was a geological survey. I just tried to find it but no luck. The book mentioned hones particularly Arkansas, but also surveyed sharpening stones worldwide. This from the late 1800s. On Belgian coticules it said, IIRC, that they were good for razors and surgical instruments, but too delicate for tool sharpening.

Of course that is not new news to those of us who have experience with them.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Years ago Sham posted a link to a book on google that was a geological survey. I just tried to find it but no luck. The book mentioned hones particularly Arkansas, but also surveyed sharpening stones worldwide. This from the late 1800s. On Belgian coticules it said, IIRC, that they were good for razors and surgical instruments, but too delicate for tool sharpening.

Of course that is not new news to those of us who have experience with them.

If the book was from the U.S it should be available from the U.S Geologic Survey. Most of that stuff is online these days.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Years ago Sham posted a link to a book on google that was a geological survey. I just tried to find it but no luck. The book mentioned hones particularly Arkansas, but also surveyed sharpening stones worldwide. This from the late 1800s. On Belgian coticules it said, IIRC, that they were good for razors and surgical instruments, but too delicate for tool sharpening.

Of course that is not new news to those of us who have experience with them.

It wasn't holtzapffel?

There may be something similar in there, but the entries in that book sometimes make it hard to tell between coticules and thuringians if I recall (actually there were two versions of it. the version before the washita stones were imported to europe is very diverse, and the one after suggest that for tool use, the washita wiped everything else off the map more or less) - there is still a separate discussion of razor stuff.

I forgot to finish what I mentioned - the toolmaker had some ethnic folks working at the museum because when you want a cabinetmaker who does everything by hand, you don't look around the US to find one, you go to hungary or somewhere in europe. One of the cabinet makers used a coticule for their tools, and another one who did a lot of carving used only a super punjab razor hone. Everyone used what they liked, and the museum stocked what people wanted to use. Until not long ago, they still had some super punjabs and frictionite #00 large bench stones, and 821/825 combinations in stock, but they've run out now. I don't think they had any coticules.

Anyway, that prompted me to try all five of my coticules for tools, and they are too soft for tools, and even the ones that aren't soft don't cut finely enough. Without the ability to do light pressure like a razor, over a fairly large bevel, they just don't satisfy.