Thread: Japanese Whetstones and their Terminology

Originally Posted by jnats

too kind. Nah. Just a guy that likes sharp things with rocks in his head. I'm checking with mods to see about pics. And Jigane is the soft iron of a blade in blades with 2 types of steel, like katana or kamisori that use a soft iron for the body and a hard iron forge welded for the edge. The hard iron is the Hagane and the hado (ohhh...I see what I did there. that term was unnecessary!) ...is "edge" precisely the same amount of characters. Okay that one I can see being seen as pretentious. Force of habit. My bad. [emoji14]

Kasumi means "mist" and it is the hazy mist contrast you get from great (toishi= sharpening stone) when using the best suited stones for the task. certain layers like Tenjyou suita (beneath aka-pin right up near the top) Do THIS: Attachment 220823

Ive always understood that (2 layered metal) as San Mai, or is that for knives only?

Originally Posted by FAL

Super!!, write that Guide Steve and Thank you Blade Brother, your guide will help many.

You can google all the info on Jnats, there are sites that specialize on selling those stones that have all the info listed.
Get a good stone from a reputable seller, get nagura, get tomonagura , get honing.
There is no mysticism about J-Nats they are very good tools and nothing more than that.

To get you started I did the search for you here it is:

JNS WiKi

A good compendium of information taken from other sources

Jnats, Awasedo, Tennen Toishi | TomoNagura.Com | Keith V. Johnso

Japan Tool

Japan Tool

Some history and thoughts on the mine structure of Kyoto | thejapanblade.com Blog

We have our own J-Nat club thread here

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...-nat-club.html


Google is a great resource to find info on almost anything these days.

I'll add my two yen. These days, on razors and not only communities, shobu (shobudani, I think Ozaki stones are basically shobu stones) ozuku (ozukuyama) and nakayama (you can't call it just naka i.e. middle) are the most sought after.
Kiita stones are the best overall stones, both fast and fine, very expensive and rare, they are the nice yellow ones.
Asagi, greyish stones are cheaper and if hard but not extremely hard, are good choices too for razors. Bland colored grey-almost black stones might be good ones, but are generally not preferred, and sold cheap (cheaper anyway)
The more rectangular shaped the stones, the better (and better always means more expensive), and if they happen not to have broken corners, the price goes even higher.
Brown/yellow/red, rust colored lines inside the stones is a gamble. It's quite possible that they are toxic inclusions, the ones that damage the edge. I wouldn't buy one with lines like that even if it was a type 30 maruka for 30$. There are also small round spots in stones that are also inclusions.
Before getting a stone, observe all sides or ask for photos of all sides. Inclusions, cracks and stuff that you can't see on the honing surface might make you sorry for giving half a month's salary for a paperweight. Most old stones that were meant to be sold and used for honing have a characteristic cutting pattern. This usually means the stone is not one from people making a living by collecting discarded stones outside of the mines, and these stones are the worst (the discarded ones) Jnats, like almost all natural stones, have the tendency to degrade if left outside, with the sun and rains for some time. A stone might look good, but it will probably brake like a cookie if you try to hone on one, if it's one of the above. And even if that won't happen, something else bad will happen.
All in all, spend half a month's salary buying a stone from an actual reputable seller, after having a conversation with him, telling him what you need and why, and you'll get the best stone you have ever used.
I was a western hones' guy until I tried a Jnat, a Shobu asagi specifically. No Escher, coticule, Charnley or fairy dust on a lapped unicorn horn will offer a better edge.
As for stamps, meh...

Originally Posted by outback

Ive always understood that (2 layered metal) as San Mai, or is that for knives only?

No, that's ni mai (or f(u)tamai?). San mai means literary three layers. A laminating pattern.

Jnats
Thank-you Sir, that is informative to the point and you taught me something.
I dont know if I will go down that rabbit hole, you summarized for the uninformed a pleasant informative explanation.

Well, I did NOT post this thread, but, whatever floats your boat. Thanks for the input Jnat users.

The San mai that is made by most U.S. makers is two layers a 403 stainless over a 5160 0r 1095 core, the core can be any high carbon steel, I like the resulting killer hamons.